Grammar or independent?

[ellie2201]

My son is academically very strong, but also loves sport, and is generally quite a 'straightforward' child - no issues with school at any point, always makes friends etc but can be shy with grown ups. There is a good (but huge) boys' grammar school a walk away in our town, or we could stretch ourselves to send him to an independent 25 mins drive away. It's not known for it's academics (but is fine), but it would mean he would still get all the sport and music etc he has at his prep school. It's also co ed which I prefer, and is smaller. Given the choice, what would you do? I change my mind on a daily basis!!

I had a child in a Salisbury prep. It was very clear that the good choices for boys who didn't leave for Bishops at year 7, were mainly boarding schools. If your son is academic, make sure you send him to an academic school, please! (my child was a boarder and we live in a non-grammar area so I was an outside observer on the grammar school decisions)

What does your prep school advise, have you discussed options with them? Depending on your situation you may find 13+ boarding schools a good option - bursaries can be generous. Children mature a lot between 10 and 12.

We faced this choice and went independent - also partly because of co-ed vs SS - but there were some clear differences from your scenario. The independent was highly academic (at least as much as the grammar), the transport was easier, and we had a bursary offer. In your situation, I think I would go for the grammar.

Grammar. Absolutely. The class size remains 30, so the year group size is not so relevant.

Go for the academic option, your DS will love being in a cohort of like minded clever boys who aim high.

A school of 1000 is not large - it's positively small for a state secondary! By big city standards anyway!

I agree that school size isn't an issue - 1000 isn't big for a secondary, and all the grammars and the independent we looked at were well over 1000. Class size may be more of a consideration, as state schools are often now up near 34 while independents are generally much smaller. The grammars seem to do very well though; i think they tend to have fewer issues with behaviour than some state options, so the class size is less of an issue.

BWS is incredibly sporty and offers a lot music wise. The boys also get great results.

You would get everything (and more) you want from Bishop's. And from next year they are taking girls into 6th form

I would say pick the school for the academic level of your child. If very bright, then a grammar, top independent or a comp with a top stream. All these are fine.

When i moved one of mine to a selective school, the comment was "everyone works as fast as me!" and no need to pretend to find the work hard so as to fit in.

If there are other issues - SEN, social etc. - then look carefully at that as some independent schools really don't want the hassle. A few others are great.

Thanks everyone. Lots to think about! I feel fairly confident that my son would cope with either option - I think I’m over thinking it.

I had two children in grammar and pulled one out to put in an independent. 160 is not a large grammar - its a medium sized one. My daughter's school had 195 each year and was increasing it to 220.
Grammars are usually very good at music and sport, especially music.
I would go grammar because he is a) academic and b) close to the school. BUT, put him down for the independent too so he can sit the common entrance in January with them. If he passes 11 plus and you choose the grammar - ask to be kept on the independent's waitlist incase things don't work out so you have options.

the really important thing no-one's mentioned is what your background as parents is, where your friends' kids go, where their cousins go, etc.

on the facts you've presented the grammar sounds far better, but if the boy is from a background whereby private education is the norm then, culturally, it might be a better fit.

I agree about going to the school which is the ‘right’ academic level. Yes children can do well in a more mixed environment but they can often fly when they have a large peer group of similar ability. It can be a different learning experience when you bear in mind that few subjects apart from maths are set in selective schools. Being in a class where 90% will get L8/9 is quite different to being in one where the range is L5/6-9 and just 20% get L9. The experience is quite different, plus you personally may be more likely to get all L9, rather than a mix of L7-9, which although obviously good, isn’t the profile of a really academic person.

Fortunately for you (assuming he passes the state 11+) the most academically appropriate sounds like both the local and free option. Most people would be thrilled to have your dilemma but instead pick the expensive independent option because it is academically their best option or the good state option is simply unavailable or too far.

Yes to trying the state option. I guess you could also pre-test for the independent for a 13+ place if you want to hedge your bets and don’t mind the hefty deposit, or you could do 13+ entry in yr8 if it’s available if you were disappointed with the state grammar. But prob best if you go for state to fully commit - remember independents can usually take an extra at all kinds of points if someone really good wants a place. It will still be an option later, but state won’t.

The music and sport will be good in the grammar. And if you want really top notch do it through the county music service and outside sports clubs. Will prob be a higher level than the independent school and although requiring effort to access the opportunity, far cheaper than fees.

Sounds like you have a dilemma many would die for. In a sense you can’t lose. State grammar can look a bit risky if you’ve a private school background, but it’s simply the unknown and you’ll find lots of similarities in the areas which really matter....it just won’t be as shiny. But when the state is more academic and you’ve got an academic child without other issues, the choice seems a no-brained to me.

Do let us know what you decide once the results are out and all the best.

Wombat.. not all grammar school pupils are achieving 8/9s, around here it is circa 50%, which is why the fact they don’t set and only set for maths in year 9, is quite surprising. Our daughter is at a prep which was selective for her year on joining, and she is top sets out of 4. No. 5 for English and top for maths. Her predicted sats are 120, and cats are maximum 141. Top set CATs have ranged from 118 to 141. Yet half the year will probably go to the local grammars, second set included, with a lot of scores which are largely much more ‘average’. I don’t really understand why it is always said that able children need to be surrounded by similarly able children. I’m nor disputing it, just really curious!

I don’t think they necessarily do, but it is a very different experience when they are. Super selective is different to slightly selective.

Ultimately, if a school has interested and well behaved children and supported parents and good teachers, the children should be able to do well. I’m not sure all schools will get the same out of them, but they should do well. I guess parents who want schools to squeeze the last little grade out of their kids who are already bright would choose the super selective option. Of course kids will come out of both schools the op is considering and do fantastically well.

As well as the academics, perhaps one has better sport or music or pastoral care or is closer or cheaper or..,. These things all matter in reaching overall decisions and some weight some factors more highly.

The op faces a free, local very academic school. The downsides don’t seem very great.

I know you posted your question in September, but thought I would ask my thoughts - my son and daughter both went to the Grammar schools in Salisbury after prep schools and I can honestly say it was such a good decision - there are lots of opportunites for music and sport so I would not worry about that and as for the academic side - the results speak for themselves ...

1000 pupils on roll is at the smaller end of average.

Don’t send a very academic child to a not very academic indie.

Most parents would kill for a place at BWS!!!! It's smaller then Eton. You would really prefer a second or third rate indy at considerable expense to one of the best state schools in the country on your doorstep

NellyBarney, I wouldn’t describe the nearest independent schools as second rate, even though their academic results aren’t as good as a highly selective grammar school! I really like the thought of a co-Ed, smaller school and the ones I’m talking about are known for great pastoral care.
Thanks everyone - I appreciate your thoughts!

Hello, sorry to resurrect an old post. How did your descision go? Pretty much in the same boat for a school start Sept 2021. My son passed 11+ for BWGS with no coaching or tutoring, he's academically able but he wants all the bells and whistles of a private school as he loves his sports, interesting clubs, space to play and meals. I'm worried about moving him to a cramped school, where hot lunches are on a rota and the sports fields are off site. Also I noticed they added another form only a few years ago so now there are 5 and the class size is now 32. Honestly I went to an ordinary Comp surrounded by playing fields and class sizes of around 25-27. I can't understand how above 30 is even allowed? Sadly we missed the pre-test for an Indie at 13+ so can't even hedge our bets. Would like to know if you chose Indie or Grammar in the end. Thanks.

The grammar. He can do sport out of school. It’s unusual for grammars to not offer lots of sports.

With 32 in a class (x5 forms)? On a small site? How can that be better than an indie with class sizes of 20 max? I'm not from a private background, I have no hang ups about going to state school but 32 came as a surprise and disappointment. One of the local comps I checked has smaller class sizes.