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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Is it worth going to see a school I don't want my boys to go to?

21 replies

ElizaPancakes · 17/09/2019 15:28

Hi all, bit of advice from some of you that have already been through it!

I have twins in Y6 so we're looking at schools. We have four within catchment - one of them is 'that school', where all the previously excluded children go.

I don't want my boys to go there. As a school, it has been 'inadequate' for over a decade, latest OFSTED, and I quote "For too long, pupils at this school have not benefitted from a good quality of education. Pupils' achievement is weak and has not shown improvement".

I worry if my quiet, sensitive boys were to go there, because there's been documented trouble with the kids from that school and I think they'd be ripe for bullying. I admit though I'm basing this on nothing but local gossip.

Having said all of the above - the other schools, one is Catholic (we are not); one is only just in catchment plus oversubscribed; the final one is probably my first choice but the open evening was terrible and we hardly got to see anything.

Both boys also have some SEN (currently being evaluated but likened to dyslexia) so I want to be sure there's good provision. This particular school has a special unit for deaf students.

I'm erring on the side of - it's a couple of hours out of my day - but also just worrying I guess!

What does everyone think? I'm dithering terribly.

OP posts:

meditrina · 17/09/2019 15:31

I would go and see it, even if it just as a point of comparison to the others.

How many slots on your council's form?

SophyStantonLacy · 17/09/2019 15:32

I would. Seeing it means you’re fully informed.

Original poster

ElizaPancakes · 17/09/2019 15:33

Just three (I think). I haven't registered yet actually; we don't have to submit till 31 Oct.

I'm also worried they won't get into the same school.

Gah I never thought this would be an issue I'd have to worry about when having kids! I always thought having them before having another would be easier - and it was till now. DS3 is so supremely confident (and no SEN) that I'd have no issues with most schools!

OP posts:

Original poster

ElizaPancakes · 17/09/2019 15:34

You're both right of course. I don't know why I'm second guessing myself on this!

OP posts:

Original poster

ElizaPancakes · 17/09/2019 15:35

Just checked the council - it's five schools we can apply for.

OP posts:

TeenPlusTwenties · 17/09/2019 15:41

Go to see it. You've nothing to lose. Information is power in case you need to appeal or they go there and then you need to know what to watch out for.

They will probably get into the same school provided you list the same schools in the same order.

Say the school has a PAN of 200.
For them not to get into the same school they would have to be 200 and 201 on the list, not very likely.
Then the one who didn't get in would be top of initial waiting list (and actually even better placed if there is a sibling link criteria).
Additionally many schools have a 'twin' criteria which says broadly 'if we accept 1 twin we'll accept the other too as an 'excepted child'.

Have a look on your council site for the offers data from previous years. Then you can see how likely you are to get any of the schools.

TeenPlusTwenties · 17/09/2019 15:44

5 schools.

So put the other 3 first.

Then find a 4th school that you would be willing to travel to, to avoid the one you hate.

Then put the one you hate last.

DobbinsVeil · 17/09/2019 15:45

I would go and see it. Some poor reputation schools actually offer very good SEN support. Of course some are across the board awful too!

keepingbees · 17/09/2019 15:45

I would definitely go and see it, it's only an hour or two of your time and it's good to get a feel for different schools for comparison if nothing else. My DS ended up loving the school on its open evening that he initially didn't want to go to and is now happy there.
You can make private appointments to view schools too if the open evening at the other one wasn't great. Sometimes this is a good idea anyway as they're not putting on such a performance and you get to see all pupils not just the ones that are helping at the open event.
If the catholic school admissions isn't based on faith then that might still be an option too.

couchparsnip · 17/09/2019 15:54

I went to our local school just so I could be sure it wasn't the right place for DS. The heads talk was given by the deputy because the new head hadn't been appointed yet. There was nothing much going on in the classrooms, just a few teachers to chat to. We missed seeing the science block entirely which showed me how important science was to them.
It made my mind up. We didn't put it down at all. Our last choice was a school across town.

Apple23 · 17/09/2019 16:43

Go and see the school and speak to the Senco.
You may find that, due to its problems, it has additional funding so more pupil support, and, due to its reputation, smaller classes, both of which your boys might benefit from.
You'll need to ask how recently was the latest Ofsted inspection, what the school is doing to address the issues, and what the systems are for pastoral care.

Make sure you put a "banker" on your preference form. The one thing worse than getting into a school you don't want is getting into a school you don't want that is a distance away.

Apple23 · 17/09/2019 16:45

Also, make an appointment to go back and see your preferred school.

clary · 17/09/2019 16:47

I would deffo go, if they are as you describe, they will be looking to improve and thus may have something to offer if that makes sense.

Or it may be awful but at least you'll see 😁

Witchend · 17/09/2019 17:34

Most schools now say that if twins one will get in and the other won't, the second one counts as an excepted child and will get in.

I'd go and see.
We have in our locality 3 schools. 1. "Over my dead body"; 2. Okay. 3. "Sell my body to get in."
Interestingly although that's what people say in year 6, the comments I hear from people with children with children actually in the schools are. 1. Very rarely hear anything negative. Hear lots of very positive. 2. Hear a mixture. 3. Hear constant complaints especially round bullying and SEN support from parents and professionals who deal with all three schools.

Original poster

ElizaPancakes · 17/09/2019 21:39

So we went.

They actually did a show with the 6th formers before the Head did her talk - which I unfortunately missed as one twin got a migraine so I had to run him home.

But....my impressions were good. The actual school is nice and has good facilities including a swimming pool. The teachers seemed personable and ready to talk which was nice; I asked about SEN provision and the teacher I spoke to (head of pastoral care for Y8 I think) said all children do a test at the beginning of the year so they can be set, and any getting below a 9.5 on a Newton (?) test will automatically have additional support. They also work closely with the primary school (of which ours is a feeder) to ensure they’re also following any recommendations for there.

The kid that stayed liked it but he’s kind of got his heart set on the first school we saw.

Most recent Ofsted was Dec 2018; Head had been in place for ten weeks. Plus signs are that she had a plan in place to overcome some of the issues; but the leadership is weak and they don’t agree amongst themselves. SEND provision is good but low-level disruption is rife especially in Y7 and 8.

I don’t know what to think. I’m a living example of ‘first impressions count’ as the school we saw the other day - much better academically - I didn’t get a warm feeling from at all. Plus, they’d made the weird decision to do their open day 3-6 so we didn’t get there till 5 which was just not long enough. Plus no presentation by the Head.

I’m waffling a bit now sorry! It’s good to get it all down. And thanks for all your advice.

I’m going to make private appointments for as many as we can once we have the report from the Ed psych which should be a couple of weeks. And also for the school we didn’t have enough time at.

Sorry this post is all over the place!

OP posts:

TeenPlusTwenties · 17/09/2019 21:54

It will be 'easier' to move from a popular school to an undersubscribed one (if the one you saw tonight is undersubscribed) than the other way around.
So if you aren't sure I'd go for the more popular one over an improving but could be awful.

Haffdonga · 17/09/2019 22:06

Well there's obviously a simple way to find out which is the best school. Send one twin to each. (Joke)

Original poster

ElizaPancakes · 17/09/2019 22:11

OP posts:

PolkaPenguin · 19/09/2019 11:37

I would avoid sending my child to a school with that kind of ofsted rating if I could. I am a teacher and have seen it from the inside!

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 19/09/2019 13:46

I worked in an RI school for quite a long time. It was the most supportive place I ever worked in. The SEND department had an SLCN unit attached and the school was known for its SEND provision. That, I suppose, is a double edged sword, because some people don’t want their child to go to a school where SEND is a strength.

I’d see if you can visit the schools on a regular day. It may give you a very different perspective.

optimisticpessimist01 · 21/09/2019 21:14

I'm a teacher, I would never in a billion years send my kids to a school like that. I'd go though just to be nosy and have a point of reference.

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