IT taught by the geography teacher?

[KGamsun1]

Hi! My dd started year 8 and IT is taught by the geography teacher. Last year it was also someone who is not related to IT at all. Is it the same in your school?

Maybe the geography teacher is really good at IT

Their IT skills may be fine, very good even, but what are they computer science skills like? Because that is what they should be teaching.

What does GCSE CS have anything to do with the price of fish?

It's more that the schools, from Key Stage 1 upwards, should be teaching computing and computer science, not IT. Computing is a core subject and should be taught to all pupils. The creation of some PowerPoint on a computer once a term does NOT meet the curriculum requirements. Even from age 5y children should be being taught computing skills starting with just basic coding principles and building up.

OP said child is being taught IT, not computer science (yr8).

But if they are following the National Curriculum it doesn't matter if they call it IT - they still have to cover the NC Computing curriculum. It isn't optional.

It's quite possible to be fully qualified to teach more than one thing.

A teacher is qualified to teach. There are actually no rules to say that a teacher has to have xxx qualification in a subject to be able to teach it. Technically any teacher can teach in any school, any subject and any level.

@KGamsun1 , I can't see the LEH exam results on their website but if you look at the Hampton school GCSE results for 2018 (next door school) you will see that only 32 boys took the GCSE out of 204 boys in the year group and they don't offer it at A level.
I know it's weird but my ds is at Hampton and at these academic schools computer science doesn't get the attention and resources that you would expect to prepare your dc for the modern world due to many of the reasons in this thread.

A teacher is qualified to teach. There are actually no rules to say that a teacher has to have xxx qualification in a subject to be able to teach it. Technically any teacher can teach in any school, any subject and any level.

How do you make sure that the teacher actually knows what they are talking about i. e. has an up to date knowledge of history, of Spanish, Chinese, physics, maths etc.? Or is the proof given, when the children pass a certain externally set exam? (Sorry, I am in a different system, so I have no idea.)

Technically any teacher can teach in any school, any subject and any level.

But chances are they’ll be a bit shit at it if it is stuck on their timetable for a few lessons a fortnight and they’re given no support or training.

Prokupatuscrakedatus
Depends on the school.

In a good school it's not unheard of for timetables to say half way through the year that things are tight and if anyone is able and willingness to offer a second subject then to let them know.
At that point staff will make their willingness and ability known (Eg. People with joint honours like me will offer both, someone who also teaches dance out of school might offer some PE, someone who does a lot of theatre productions or music might volunteer drama or music, someone who has previously taught KS3 maths might offer because y7 maths would be nicer than y10 DT).

At a good school, there's lots of support, good schemes of work to follow too. If you're out of specialism then really y7/8 geography or PSHE isn't beyond the capability of a qualified teacher, or shouldn't be.

In a less good school then staff are thrown in wherever, but then it's not unheard of in schools like that that struggle for stafffor most of the core departments not to be subject specialists and they'll have people in HOD who are 2 years in at 23/24 and have no life experience

resources.finalsite.net/images/v1568021977/lehsorguk/fyer7dvbmolesdy6jkgj/ComputerScienceApplicantInformationSept2019.pdf

Fascinated to know which teacher it is!

LEH is an indie. What does GCSE CS have anything to do with the price of fish?

Computer Science has been in the top three of highest paying degrees in the U.K. in the last 4 years. Indie’s are very keen to be seen providing rigorous GCSEs. Methinks you don’t know what you are talking about and still think ICT is the same as Computer Science.

And as PetraDelphiki has posted a link, the OP’s child is doing Computing and not IT. But you can blame Gove for the confusion.

This happened in my childrens school

For year 10 my child learned nothing...absolutely nothing. And such a massive deal about whether they would let him take it, he had to have high grades in other subjects and promise that he would work hard

Then they gave him a teacher that didnt teach them anything

Luckily they hired a new teacher for year 11....truly outstanding teacher and he worked incredibly hard to get them to pass...and pass well

I’m sorry that happened Rufus

This is the problem that teachers tried to shout about but Gove insisted on ditching one GCSE for a whole other subject, without giving schools any time or money to either train up existing staff or train new staff.

It’s like ditching all MFL languages in French, German, Spanish etc and forcing all MFL teachers to teach Arabic or Mandarin from September, with no support. You don’t like it? Then quit. Oh, you’ve quit? Shit, we’d best get someone who is under timetabled to quickly shoe in.

And then we wonder why the uptake of GCSE CS is falling and results are not as high as Maths or Physics.

chloe

I completely agree

Yes, we have a lot of non specialist teachers delivering the curriculum in KS3 due to

a) lack of specialists
b) the actual specialist staff having their timetable filled with GCSE and A Level lessons
c) lack of incentives for specialists training as teachers

But I would also take issue with PP about the CS curriculum - there is a digital literacy strand within it that many are ignoring and this has been blatantly obvious in the latest new cohorts and this will very soon become a major issue.

We have had for the last few years yr7 students who have never used a physical keyboard, never used a mouse never mind having opened a spreadsheet. Yes they can code, annotate a block of code fully explaining it but they don't even know they can use shift and that they don't have to hit caps lock for 1 capital letter

cricketballs3 I would say that is a KS2 fault not KS3. DS is in year 11 and doing CS for GCSE. It is only because we have a very enthusiastic head of CS that he carried on into GSCE with computers even though he has always loved the subject. The old KS3 ICT curriculum was absolutely crap. Learning how to deal with word and spreadsheets etc, which was not only boring but what was learnt in year5/6 in his fairly average junior school.

Answering the OP there is a definite lack of specialist teaching in KS3 of CS. It is very hard when someone with a CS qualification can get 4 times the amount in a job outside of teaching, it really is a matter of vocation when it comes to teaching CS IMO

I would say that is a KS2 fault not KS3

My response is that it is the fault of lack of fore thought for all ages - just because the kids can navigate social media on their phones doesn't mean that they are efficient users of IT

We have students in yr7 who have not seen a physical keyboard, not used a spreadsheet but can create a game using scratch. Whilst I agree that some IT qualifications were Microsoft Office training the GCSE wasn't and encouraged use of a range of different tools to research, create solutions and evaluate their creations.

Computer Science is important but IT is a different entity that should not be ignored or disregarded

People with computing skills can earn far more money in industry for a less stressful job (no OFSTED etc). Therefore there's a shortage of computer science teachers.

The main problem isn’t learning what to do, that’s just following instructions, it’s figuring out what’s gone wrong when it doesn’t work or something weird happens.
Welcome to my world as a software developer!

What I am saying is that at year 7 if they are coming in having no keyboard or mouse skills it needs to be addressed at KS2 level. By year 7 ALL students should have basic IT skills. So that as they move into KS3 more CS skills should be taught. Though having said that the original problem pops up that there just aren't enough qualified staff to teach.

Years 7-10 ish now have no IT (not CS) skills. They can't type, file manage, use a mouse, use a spreadsheet, search the internet effectively...they can (sort of) make a poster or powerpoint but their graphic design skills are appalling and everything looks horrible. I sound like a broken record but I just laugh when adults think kids have better IT skills than them. They really, really don't.

It's not just KS2 who are at fault. It should be being taught from KS1. I teach Computing (with ICT as one element of that) from 4. The children have an hour a week in the computer room from their first full time days with us. We have retained a proper computer room with desk top computers. We also have several iPads which are used in class at other times and as part of the computing sessions.

By the time they leave year 2 to move to juniors I expect the children to be able to log on and off using a password, load a relevant software based on what their task is, use a mouse and keyboard effectively, and be able to search the internet and retrieve information. They should be able to use software such as word, PowerPoint. They'll have used simple database and spreadsheets, plus a whole raft of other ICT software and websites. In addition they will have done introductory coding using scratch, scratch jr, beebots, flowol and other coding websites. We also will have taught online safety aspects and some general digital literacy elements.

I don't have any control over the ks2 as our school is only infants but I know they don't do half as much as they ought to. I know a lot is timetabling and fitting in the rest of the curriculum, they also haven't invested in computing in the way we have, and they don't have staff with the relevant experience. It's tricky.

In a good school it's not unheard of for timetables to say half way through the year that things are tight and if anyone is able and willingness to offer a second subject then to let them know.

In this sort of situation, what happens to your existing classes and timetable if you offer to teach a second subject half way through the year-does someone else have to take those over or are you just timetabled during your frees/PPA?

fedup
Half way through the year is when the timetable is started for the following year.

So Feb 2019 there'd be a request for part timers to speak to the timetabler about preferred days for next year, if they need people out of main subject then that would get asked etc.
Then between Feb and July time the timetable goes back and forth between the powers that be and heads of department allocated people to specific classes (usually who they want in GCSE/A level first). Then some more rejigging happens. Timetables will exist in draft form from the start of July with final changes ready to be given to staff in the last week of term.

It's a long process timetabling 1500-2000 students and 100 teachers and rooms (most staff don't have their own room all the time)

I was taught A level law by my GCSE German teacher. She got 21 A grades from a class of 22.

We also have several iPads which are used in class at other times and as part of the computing sessions.

I am glad that you also have desktop computers too. So many primary schools just have iPads, however.
I’m regularly getting Year 7s who have never used a mouse and I’m having to teach them to double click etc. or have never saved a file to a directory. They are just used to using and playing with educational apps.
Before I can teach them any of my curriculum, I have to support these pupils and I have just 1 hour a week to to that. Has been happening for the past 4 years.
To put in token ‘digital literacy’ requirements into the new NC for Computing (which was still not finalised for a couple of years after even Gove left the Ed Sec role, such was the awful way in which he washed his hands of it all) in such a short amount of time, juggled with trying to prepare pupils for the GCSE and it’s such a struggle, even for a specialist like me!

Computer Science has been in the top three of highest paying degrees in the U.K. in the last 4 years. Indie’s are very keen to be seen providing rigorous GCSEs. Methinks you don’t know what you are talking about and still think ICT is the same as Computer Science.
My original background is in CS so I know the difference. The OP’s DD is starting year 8 and I know LEH does not start their GCSE in year 8. You keep commenting about the difficulty of CS GCSE like only you know how difficult it is. I teach in a top girls indie in the country and I have a good idea of how difficult it is. It doesn’t mean that their year 8 curriculum has to have the same level of difficulty.

I’m commenting because the OP’s child is doing Computing and not IT as you said (someone else posted the evidence to prove that they don’t) and therefore....

1. They will be doing more than just ‘here is how to write a PowerPoint’. They will be following the new national curriculum which is as difficult as Art, Maths etc. that you stated.

1. They will be preparing them for the GCSE so that (a) they know what they are choosing and (b) so that they are better prepared for it. Therefore, I was stating that because the GCSE is harder, they will need to start teaching the skills much earlier on than before (like they already do in Art, Maths, English etc)

1. An indie as you put it, will be wanting to show that they are taking the subject seriously because it is such a valued degree and therefore, I disagree with you stating to not be too bothered about complaining because it is not as difficult as those other subjects you listed.

I assumed that you were basing this on probably what IT you did at school (not as a career or degree) and was pointing out things had drastically changed.

Have you seen the new national curriculum in Computing, along with the new GCSE and A Level?