Grade 3 in english language retake or remark?

[Hermanhessescat]

Ds is dyslexic and had a scribe for all of his exams. Also 25% extra time which he admitted he didn’t tend to use . Throughout the last 2 years he was predicted to obtain a 3 in eng Lang but somehow managed to get 2 marks off a 5 in his mocks on the back of very little revision. As we expected he got 3 in the final exam. Because his other grades were very good, he’s been accepted at sixth form to study the subjects he wanted despite lacking the eng Lang. He’ll hopefully retake in nov or next year. I’ve suggested we find out what his marks were to see if it warrants a remark - if it’s successful it will save him an awful lot of extra work and let him concentrate on his A’levels. He’s adamant we don’t - he reckons the college wants a 5 in English Lang and he needs to get this instead - otoh I suspect the college will be quite happy to accept a 4 due to his other grades being pretty much what they asked for. It would still be pass after all. If he’s so close to the grade boundary for a 4 I am so tempted to just do it but obviously ds would feel very much let down. Trouble is he’s so dogmatic and gets fixated over certain things without thinking rationally. Just wondered if anyone had any advice !

Why not just get the remark - can always retake off a 4 if he wants. Assuming not right on edge of 2 of course!

The mark band for grade 3 is really wide. If he is close to the boundary definitely get it remarked, because even with a resit the chances of a 4 could go up as well as down.

There's no such thing as a remark anymore. There is a review of marking where the reviewer will check for clerical errors, no missing questions that haven't been marked and check that the questions are in the correct band/the mark scheme has been fairly applied. They won't say "this got 12 but I think it should have 14".

If he has a 3 he probably has a better chance at retaking than if he has a 4. Unless something has changed since I last looked (and it may well have), there's no funding for GCSE resits on a 4.

Equally, he may want to consider that FE resit classes are not like y11 lessons. There's not the same support systems in place and not the same sort of hours to develop skills.

What he also may want to consider is whether any universities or potential employment based courses stipulate a grade 5 in English.

There's a few things to consider before deciding.

You a surely can have a review of marking @LolaSmiles

See link here to AQA where it talks about review of marking/remarks.

www.aqa.org.uk/exams-administration/after-results/post-results/review-and-priority-review-of-mark

We are in the same situation OP. My DS was 4 marks off a 4 and we have asked for a remark.

Sounds reasonable mayday.
He’s said he doesn’t want one even though it might avoid a retake . If he’s a mark or so off I’m so tempted. I’ll probably speak to school on the 3rd of sept to gauge their opinion. My son will be retaking it at an FT college and tbh I’m concerned that his fellow retakers might not have a good work ethic

Maydayredalert
It's not a remark. This matters as people think they are getting a remark and that's not what a review of marking is. They are two different things.

The board made it very clear to centres and it says this on the page you've linked to:

If you request a review or priority review of marking:

it includes a clerical re-check
a second examiner will review the paper/recording again to identify genuine marking errors or unreasonable marking
we'll make sure all the marks are counted

Genuine marking errors is where, for example, an examiner has misread an answer, not awarded marks for units when units were present, has an English response been capped as a rubric infringement incorrectly etc.

Unreasonable marking is about whether the mark scheme has been applied fairly, not whether a second marker agrees on the exact mark.
E.g. if first marker put the question in band 3, but the bottom of band 3, the second marker is checking whether the marking was unreasonable (aka is it in the wrong band), not that in their personal opinion they'd go 2 marks higher in band 3. If the second marker thinks the mark scheme has been unreasonably applied then they may move it to band 2 or band 4.

A review and a remark are not the same thing

So which can you ask for a review or a remark ?

I think the difference is that they are only going to change the mark if the marker has very clearly put the answer in the wrong band, not if they have given 12/20 instead of 14, 7 instead of 8, etc. So unless the marker has done something pretty egregious, they are supposed to leave it as it is.

Did he take English lit? Sometimes that is accepted on and either/or with English Language

Hermanhessescat
The new procedure is a review of marking.

Hercule has it right.

I completely disagree LolaSmiles but that's not helpful to the OP so will leave it there.

OP ask your exams office. My DSs were very clear we could apply for a remark / review of marking and advised us to do it.

He passed English lit. Ah so it’s just a check that figures were added up correctly etc rather than a was the question answered suffiently for that grade issue ? Thanks everyone

Not quite, OP. They will check whether the mark scheme has been applied “reasonably”.

Just to clarify you can only ask for a review. Remarks don't exist in GCSE. They will check the marking scheme has been applied correctly but as long as the original mark for a question is in the right band there will be no change. You'd have to move up a band to gain the extra mark needed.
If it goes up to a 4, there won't be funding for a retake to try and get a 5 - you would have to pay for the exam and any tuition.

OP ask your exams office. My DSs were very clear we could apply for a remark / review of marking and advised us to do it.
What I'm saying has come from the board to centres and it's what our exams office have sent out and it's what most English teachers are discussing at the moment after the ridiculous marking this year.

Your child's school is right to say you can apply for a review of marking.
If they have said you can have a remark then that's not current practice as hasn't been for years.

There's some things to agree to disagree on but it isn't helpful for the OP To be under the impression that a review of marking and a remark are the same

Obviously if it stays at a 3 he can retake for free!

Ah so it’s just a check that figures were added up correctly etc rather than a was the question answered suffiently for that grade issue ? Thanks everyone
The review has a clerical element and then checks the mark scheme has been applied appropriately
E.g. is this question in band 3 mark of the mark scheme or has it been marked in the incorrect band. Each band has a mark range. If the band is wrong then the mark will change. They won't change marks if there is a difference of opinion within a band.

In a remark (as was) meant the question was marked again and movement could happen within bands.

I teach GCSE English language in FE and I've marked for AQA. Not this year, though. The remark policy changed to review when the new 9-1 spec came in.

otoh I suspect the college will be quite happy to accept a 4 due to his other grades being pretty much what they asked for.

Don't you think it would be a reasonable idea to ask the school if they would consider it first?
It would be a bit silly to get it remarked and then find out they won't take it anyway.

I teach GCSE English Language in a college and we sent over 30 papers away last year to be "remarked" and only one of those came back with any adjustments. It went up 1 mark and the original mark was 2 away from the grade 4.

So, for me, it depends how much the money means to you. (presuming you'll have to pay for it yourself, that is?)

This is my understanding, Im sure the teachers will say if Im wrong.

Say a question has 4 marking bands 0-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, each with their own generalized criteria (e.g. none or zero use of complex words … use of technical and sophisticated language throughout). Then the review can say they have been given 12 but should be in the higher band at 17, but cannot say they've been given 10 but really I think it should be a bit higher in the same band, so 12.

At DD`s school both student and parent have to sign form agreeing to remark I think.

Teen that's my understanding too.

I find it odd. Say over 5 questions someone potentially could go up 20 marks, but each question stay in the same banding, so nothing changed. Or someone could go up 5 marks over 5 questions and each hit the banding so get the extra marks.

I think that should be done in conjunction of noting down each question that they think should be adjusted up or down but any marks, and if there are more than a certain proportion that should be adjusted the same way, they should remark the paper entirely.

I'd be interested to know if the markers are aware of the banding on the questions when they both initially mark and remark.
Because I would amazed if that didn't influence marking. Either a kind-hearted one thinking "oh I'll just put them over the boundary, give them a 15, that's just into the next boundary so they get the marks" or one who wants to discourage going up and thinks more along the lines of "well, it should be more than 13, so I'll give 14 so it doesn't go up."

I'd be interested to know if the markers are aware of the banding on the questions when they both initially mark and remark.
The mark schemes with descriptors are available online for anyone to see.

The changes to the system (which I don't agree with on the whole) essentially came about because schools were entering loads for remarking and lots were getting changed. It used to be that the highest mark stood and went forward too so lots of people took the gamble. Now they say "but it could go down" to put people off gambling. When you add in what I've heard from markers about the issues marking GCSE English and how the seeded scripts to quality assure examiners seem to be wildly inconsistent with what they want, it feels to me as a teacher that the board's are actively trying to kill off a culture of holding them to account. Of course I might be a bit jaded and cynical on that front but it's certainly how I feel at times.

Dc predicted 8 and 9 in eng lit and eng lang but received a 5 in both. We are horrified. We have asked for priority access to scripts to make sure what Dc wrote was not in fact crap but I can't believe Dc did on 4 separate days. I am hoping review of marking will show "unreasonable marking". English teacher has said Dc has Never written at that level. How difficult is it to prove "unreasonable marking"? Anyone know?

How difficult is it to prove "unreasonable marking"? Anyone know?
Fairly straightforward for a case like that if it's as you say. I can only talk for AQA here so it might not be relevant.

One band talks about 'some success' in hitting certain skills, others talk about a 'clear' and consistent piece of writing.
So (for example) if they have been tasked with a persuasive letter then they would have some awareness of what a letter looks like and would probably use some devices but they'd be quite basic and clichéd. a higher band would clearly have features of a letter running through it, a better placing of techniques (rather than it feeling like rambles with some tick list devices), and would have appropriate formality. The top band would be able to manipulate features of a letter, move seamlessly between registers, use the techniques in a way that's nuanced and draws on audience a lot more. Obviously marking English against descriptors leaves some difference if opinion but it's fairly obvious which band a piece of writing falls into.

One thing I'm always cautious about on this is that I've seen on teaching forums and groups what some people are saying would get a specific grade and at times in shocked. Their expectations are much lower than my school's. Or I've seen people sharing lessons with "full marks grade 9 example" and I download it to find I would say it's a mid 7 at very most. Looking at the examiner report for this year, I'm not sure all schools have grasped the level of challenge and the need for broad coverage.

It's worth getting the scripts back to check it through, but what would be in the back of my head is "what's the chance that a child did that much worse on 4 days?"

Fingers crossed for you that it is an unfortunate marking situation on all 4 because gut instinct says it's more likely that they weren't an 8 and if that's the case someone's messed up.