IGSE's at Indies

[carben]

Read this yesterday. It seems ridiculous to me that state children can be doubly disadvantaged.

amp.theguardian.com/education/2019/aug/24/private-schools-igcse-exams-easier-gcse-university-admissions

Just don't get it. First, I thought A levels are by far the qualification unis really look at, second you would think that children taking the GCSEs and not the I version would be advantaged as better prepared for what comes next A levels.... so all a bit much of muchness to stir the pot a bit but no underlying worry in my view. In fact I would be worried if didn't take the normal GCSEs....

The background to this is much more complex than that article suggests. IGCSEs have traditionally been used by many independent schools for precisely the opposite reason i.e. because they were considered more rigorous and a better preparation for A-level. For a period (5-10 years ago) the government were encouraging state schools to take them too, or at least to have the freedom to do so e.g. here IGCSEs were also, I believe, used as part of the review for raising standards for GCSEs and the new 'tougher' regime.

Then about 5 years ago the narrative changed as the Gove reforms came in. IGCSEs were removed from league tables and progress measures so effectively forcing state schools to use the government's new system. Independent schools have more freedom to make choices as to which they use and tend to use a mix of GCSE and IGCSE depending on the best choice for each subject. I think I am right in saying that independent schools currently have about a 50/50 split between the two overall. Given that the reforms have been rather controversial (e.g. the English teachers I know hate the new GCSE syllabus and feel it has sucked the joy from the subject) it's not surprising that the IGCSEs have remained popular. Given the political football that GCSEs have been then you can see why there is an attraction in qualifications that are more shielded from Govt interference.

So the narrative of 'independent schools pick easy exams to game the system' is a bit simplistic. Also, I think I am right in saying that universities have always treated the two as equivalent despite IGCSEs being widely regarded as more rigorous for a long period.

@Ali86, spot on.

Anyone applying to Russel Group Unis know that the admissions process is much more rigorous. Oxford look at GCSEs but given admissions are mostly entrance test based then the GCSEs are irrelevant. You can get good Maths grades at GCSE, good predicted Maths grades at A levels but if you fail the MAT you will not get further in the process.

The article and MPs FOI question is either very naive or deliberately devisive.

My kids are older , (Mid 20s) but their indie school moved to iGCSEs for some subjects during the time they were doing GCSE . From memory, both did iGCSE English Lang and Lit which proved a very good basis for A level English . DC2 also did iGCSE maths and having the final test at the end seemed to enable them to concentrate on the syllabus and the learning seemed focus on the long term rather than passing the next assessment IYSWIM. The year after DC2 moved to iGCSE history , again as it was viewed as better preparation for A level.
Interestingly the local grammar school changed to offering GCSE science, single subject but then did iGCSE for individual sciences, I suspect that they were playing the league tables though.

I think that the indie have the freedom to chiose which subjects offer the best preparation for A Levels rather than chase the pass rates.

Our school kept IGcse English, Maths and History as the teachers prefer the syllabus.

The government want all schools to take their new GCSE so they can compare them in league tables.

It's simply not true that they are easier. The English Igcse is far more interesting to teach and dds school has huge success at A level.

That article is deliberately stirring division.

IGCSE were used by state schools to "game" the league tables
as getting a C at IGCSE was significantly easier than at GCSE
particularly in Maths and English
so state schools were barred from using them
some kids took both so there is solid empirical evidence that the IGCSE was easier

Arrghhhh

listening that is 110% fake news.

carben Interested to know what your view was for the last 10 or so years, before the linear GCSE came into being, when they were very much "easier" than the then linear iGCSE. Did you make the point that the GCSE was easier, and that therefore disadvantaged private school pupils?

For a start, igcses don't even count for league tables

Indy school here and only igcse offered.Considered more in line with Alevels. 50% Oxbridge offers so don’t think they are regarded negatively!

Listening, if you are trying to stir it at least make a sound argument because that does not make any sense.....

IGCSEs were part of the league tables until State schools gamed them
if you do not know that you need to read more

IGCSE Cambridge examiners teach their own examinees - illegal in GCSE exams

read up on the background before pulling an article in isolation

They were never, ever seen to be easier. If you could link to an article saying State schools chose them because they were easier I would love to see it.

The English igcse was different, not easier.

If state school parents really need to make themselves feel superior by believing that private school kids do easier exams and that's why little Jonquil did better than little Andrew then you just carry on believing that :-D

ligresa
If they were not easier, why were state schools stopped from using them?

Try looking up some of Fiona Millar's articles on them.
or the BBC articles about examiner corruption

Well maybe because the order came from above??

Because the government wants all schools to use their reformed GCSES so there is a way to compare schools. As their reformed GCSES are sometimes a bit shit (ie English), indies have kept the decent, tough IGCSES which they feel are better preparation for A level and nicer to teach.

And they are not forced to dance to the Government's tune! They are independent of Government. That’s the point. It’s up to others how they view the exams taken by DC.

I’m a senior examiner for an iGCSE. They are usually sat by foreign schools and independents who have more flexibility on what they can sit. Some of the questions are pretty rigorous! I really like the paper more than the GCSE versions.