Mandarin Excellence programme quandry - WWYD?

[CoatyMcHangerson]

Right. This is a bit involved so please bear with me.

DS1 (11) is about to start a state secondary school. He is bright and quirky, pretty geeky and not at all sporty. After we'd accepted his place (it was our 2nd choice but we eventually saw that this school seems to have more geeky things and extra-curricular on offer for his interests than the 1st choice) we were sent all the bumf, including something we'd not been told about - that this school is part of the Mandarin Excellence programme run by the government and British Council to encourage a large cohort of 'fluent Mandarin speakers' by some unattainable date or other for, I assume, economic/business reasons. The programme starts at year 7 and carries on to GCSE Mandarin, and students have 8 hours a week YES EIGHT of tuition, though 4 of those are private study (and I understand a lot of this is done via an online course that they are signed up to). So it's (necessarily) intensive, demanding and a long-haul option. There is a highly subsidised 2 week trip to China at end of year 8 currently costing parents £700 which is obviously a steal.

I don't want to assume anything but don't see DS1 as a burgeoning captain of industry or business - but who can tell what will happen? It's an interesting and unusual thing to learn. At the point at which we got the enrollment papers he wanted to learn Ancient Greek (Rick Riordan...) and had taught himself the alphabet and some basic words - and while this is obviously very, very different, I think the idea of an entirely alien-to-him way of writing appealed. So we decided to put him down for it.

What we didn't know at the time but have since discovered from his induction days/parents' evening event this summer:

His school has just restructured the way in which it teaches modern languages. Formerly, I think the students did one year of French and one year Spanish by end of year 8 and then decided which to do at GCSE. Now they have arbitrarily divided the incoming year 7 into two streams - French and Spanish - and if you're in the Spanish stream you do that in years 7 and 8 and no French at all. This in itself seems very strange to me but there we are. DS1 is, or would be, in the Spanish stream. He's fine with that if he decides not to do Mandarin after all.

IF you opt to do the Mandarin programme, something else has to give in the curriculum. This is any other modern language - so no Spanish - and two hours of PE per fortnight (DS1 was doing lots of fist bumps at that news). Ok.

IF you start Mandarin and then a few months or a year down the line, you decide it was a mistake/too hard/don't want to do it, you then get put back into the modern language stream you would otherwise have been in with your classmates. And have, willy-nilly, to make up lost time to catch up with the rest of them. I was told students in this position would be given lots of support, language clubs etc, but it's clear to me that if a student was struggling with Mandarin because it's hard and time-intensive, gives it up after, say, 6 months, and then goes back into Spanish/French, then they are having to cope with a double-whammy of intensive work.

DS1 is bright but fairly lazy (takes after me) and while I think he'd get a lot out of studying something so different and challenging, he is all about the easier path. I personally suspect that a lot of the geekier and quirkier boys that I think he'd bond with will be taking Mandarin and that might help him find his tribe at secondary school (he's been at a very small village primary with a small friendship pool and really wants to find soulmate friends).

So what should he do? I know without being told that if he doesn't put his back into it, coaching him through 4 hours of Mandarin homework a week (on top of whatever other homework he gets) is going to be hell for the whole family. But I think it would be so good for him. From his point of view, he says he still wants to be a paleontologist in Liaoning, China (this is the main reason I name-changed as anyone I know reading this will spot him immediately ) and therefore Mandarin would be helpful, but that he's concerned about the hard work. He also says that he is interested in the paleontology of Portugal and that while Spanish is different, it's obviously not a million miles away from Portuguese, so ...

We have two weeks before term starts to decide and I have no bloody idea. Please help! Does anyone have a DC who is on this programme?

I speak a number of languages and like to think I’m naturally good at picking them up. Tried to learn Chinese with open university but found it extremely hard and retained precisely nothing from a year of study. But I’d have loved to have been able to do it at school and I imagine that a younger brain might find it more manageable...? Seems like a great opportunity to do something different which may well be a very marketable skill in the future. If he’s already taught himself some Greek it sounds like the interest and ability to self-motivate is there?

DD is doing mandarin. it's a huge amount of work. They are only allowed to do it as an extra GCSE, taught after school, not instead of their MFL.

Learning the characters is a mammoth task.
It's also a tonal language, her teacher once said most people who do well are musical (though that isn't necessarily the case in her current class, it is those who have the time and inclination to plough through the work)

I would absolutely encourage your Ds to take Mandarin.

My DD20 went to a Scottish state school and got the chance of a funded school trip to China and then a scholarship year there when she left school. She's heading off next week to spend another year there as part of her Chinese degree.

She's already had job offers as there are lots of companies, Chinese and otherwise, who are desperate for Mandarin speakers as there are huge trading opportunities. I've been to a jobs fair for UK students of Chinese and they are really, really keen to sign them up for all sorts of industries including airlines, education, insurance and banking.

I wouldn't do 2 European languages instead of Mandarin, most of the French/German/Spanish people speak English so it's not a huge boost to a CV. The ability to speak Mandarin gives you a huge edge in almost any international industry. Lots of Chinese people learn English, but being from a Westernised culture and being able to speak Mandarin is important to Chinese employers.

My DD has just obtained grade 8 in GCSE mandarin in year 9 as part of mandarin excellence programme at state school - I think it’s fab opportunity to do something different, be stretched and for my DD has given her some extra confidence in herself. She did something like 6 hours a week mandarin that included tutor time/drama/phsre being taught in mandarin so not just straight mandarin lessons. She has had subsidised trip in China as part of MEP , Chinese residential at a UK uni and Chinese students to stay with us. No other MFL allowed tho. Class seems to attract very invested parents(!) and more geeky boys . I would say go for it - it’s easier to drop out of the MEP programme- impossible at my DD’s school to join later in year 7

Thanks for your comments - the full range of opinions which precisely sums up my confusion and split feelings on this! Everything you've said makes sense... it's a great opportunity but at the same time it's obviously going to be extremely hard work and will require a level of commitment I'm not sure he has (unless he really loves it). He does have a great visual memory so perhaps learning characters will not be too bad. He's almost entirely unmusical though.

Just in case it wasn't clear, he would only be doing ONE MFL at this school if he weren't doing Mandarin - they've changed the way they do MFL, unless I've massively misinterpreted, and students are now either down to do two years of French OR Spanish. This has been decided along form groups, though I dare say if students/parents felt strongly that they really wanted to study the language they hadn't been allocated, they could swap. But the Mandarin set won't do any other language at all.

It's a bit annoying on one level because frankly, languages weren't something that had dominated conversations with DS1 about what secondary school was going to be like. He's really looking forward to doing 'proper' science, history and design tech. Hadn't really thought about languages until the Mandarin stuff arrived in the post. But I can see that if he doesn't really get on with it, the fallout from quitting and having to make up time will make his year 7/8 a lot about languages.

My DS did Mandarin GCSE this year and really enjoyed it. He was not a natural linguist - struggled with French and gave it up but Mandarin just clicked for him.

It doesn’t for everyone and there was a high drop out rate at his school but those who kept going were really enthusiastic about it.

I would say go for it - the upsides are worth it if it clicks. Obviously picking up Spanish and being behind will be tough but worth that risk.

Ds started at a grammar school last year. They do two languages and also lessons in mandarin but less than the other two languages. He had the chance to do the Mandarin excellence programme. We decided it would be too much. He said the boys who are doing it aren't enjoying it as it is too much and too intensive. However they are all still doing the other two languages as well. I've just asked him and he said he's glad he's not doing it.

I say go for it. He might love it and prefer it to the typical Spanish & French language curriculum.
DD2 has been doing two languages at school for the past two years and to be honest with a bit of investment you could very easily pick up what she has learned in those two years.
also many schools allow interested students to add Spanish in yr9, seems to get good results.

I would do it if Spanish didn't have to be dropped. I think a European language is far more important despite what our Brexiting overlords may think about all these amazing trade deals including with China we are going to get.