Permanent Exclusion..... Next Options

[alwaysgettingitwrong]

First time posting so please go easy......

My oldest is going into Yr10 as was permanently excluded from the local rural secondary school just before the break. He has a lot of Social, Emotional and Mental Health issues, which school refused to recognise for over a year, until we requested an EHCP assessment which was agreed to and will be complete by mid September.

I'm torn in whether we appeal as his behaviour was unacceptable but he was so far into their sanctions policy (Zero tolerance) that he spent 90% in a isolation booth with no breaks or social time for last 1.5 terms which compounded his issues and made his behaviour worse.

Second child is thriving at this local school (going into Y8) and it's outstanding and genuinely well thought of in the community.

He's academically capable but in my opinion, probably a bit unstable and easily overwhelmed for a "fresh start" in a new secondary school, likely to be miles away from home.

Trying to understand other options, he can't go back, there are no full-time Pupil Referral Units within a 30 mile radius, just some ad-hoc private companies that offer the council some education for excluded pupils on ad-hoc days, and by looks of it the learning is somewhat basic.

Has anyone heard of anything else available to us? I'm in a position where we could pay privately but don't think full-time boarding school is an option for us as a family. College appears to be off the cards due to his permanent exclusion.

Any advice much appreciated.

OP, if you have written evidence of telling the school 38 times that his SEMH needs were not being met, then I would definitely go to an IRP appeal.
Can't believe the school will be able to put that into a positive perspective.

@admission - yes I have every letter and email, even got MP involved last month (before exclusion) who wrote to the head expressing his concerns about his constant isolation and how it was causing him to get angry and self half

Can he go on a waiting list for WMG? You may well find some people don't turn up in September. You could also try to get it named in EHCP. I don't know what issues your son has but mine is ASD and when we went round ours they seemed to cater far better for them than your average mainstream and said they have a high proportion of ASD kids. Ours is a longer day and looked like that one is too - they do homework there. My DH works in a similar industry to you and they were very keen when he went round.

Transport try asking your LEA - never used school transport but there maybe someway they can help - you might have to pay. Or ask the school. Or if you can afford it a local taxi company may do a contract.

I'm torn in whether we appeal as his behaviour was unacceptable

Why was your DS excluded OP? Was there any violence involved? If so, was it a one off incident or has it happened before? Is he a danger to other students?

My DB lost an appeal against my DNephews PE as, even though the school had let him down multiple times & failed to support his needs, he was deemed a danger to other pupils. Apologies if I’m way off the mark but it’s just something to consider.

@MissSueDenim He was excluded for Persistent Defiant Beahviour, 95% failing to follow school rules, being rude to teachers and being disruptive in class / isolation placements. However he did hit a child in his year group who was taunting him - wasn't a fight as the other child was sat down.

What would prevent him behaving in exactly the same way again if they were forced to take him back? What measures do you imagine the school could put in place to mitigate the effects he’d have / has had on other pupils?

@headintheiclouds at what point did I say I wanted him back in that school? My post was to try and understand my options, I don't believe he should have been permanently excluded due to his SEN and we are awaiting an EHCP which should help us identify the right provision ... I just don't honestly know what is available to meet his needs.

Your response reads of someone who has a negative opinion of children whose behaviour is as a result of diagnosed mental health conditions and the approach the school has applied to these children.

Your response reads of someone who has a negative opinion of children whose behaviour is as a result of diagnosed mental health conditions and the approach the school has applied to these children.

Sorry OP, does he have a diagnosis at the moment?
My advice as a Senco is to wait to appeal the PX as he has not yet got an EHCP, and you can't be certain at the moment what that will comprise of. The LA will have to name a school on it, you need to be discussing with the case worker what the options are. Until you have all the available information you're not able to make an informed choice.
Regarding your DS future, a managed move is a much better position for him to be in rather than a PX.
I do have to say though that regardless of his SEMH need, if he has assaulted another pupil (despite him saying he was being goaded), you're probably not going to have the PX overturned. Were the police involved?
You mentioned a psychologist. Was that through the EHCP process or did you pay privately? I only ask because in my experience, the EP reports that the parents have paid for privately that I have seen were very heavily weighted to what the parents have told the EP, rather than a balanced report based on meetings with school staff, parents, CAMHS professionals plus observations and assessments with the pupil.
EP reports make recommendations to schools and we work collaboratively with parents to draw up cycles of APDR to support the pupil. Is this what happened in your DS case?

@Soontobe60 ECHP is due 13th September (we requested it as school refused to), I was posting to understand my options for next year. Appealing against the Pex is sort-of secondary but I do feel no allowances have been made for his SEMH issues.

Academically has potential but he has not responded well to a mainstream school which has a zero tolerance policy - 95% of his issues have been talking/misbehaving in class/arguing with teachers which has meant him spending 15 weeks of last 18 week in isolation - despite 38 letters I have written to school these last two terms, backed up with letters from his GP, counsellor and our local MP that this only makes his behavior and anxiety worse.

The school commissioned the EP report and before that he was already receiving help from CAMHS / counsellors. To get a PEx just before the ECHP is due seems harsh. I'm splitting hairs here I know but he was excluded for persistent defiant behavior not assault but he did hit another child.

I'm not fighting for him to stay at that school, we live quite rural so it's unlikely another mainstream secondary would be suitable and there are no PRU's (just privately contracted provision some of which looks good)

To be clear if your son was excluded for persistent disruptive behaviour then the school can and will include all incidents including hitting the other pupil. However that then puts the incident in the category of "just another incident" rather than a specific incident that could be considered important enough to warrant PA in its own right. So if the school talk in the PE letter explaining the reason behind the PE as including the assault than that is serious. However if they do not mention it specifically then I would have to disagree with Soontobe60 that the PE cannot be overturned as he has assaulted a pupil. Actually the PE can never be overturned, it can only be referred back to the school for reconsideration or quashed and referred back to the school for reconsideration.

Academically has potential but he has not responded well to a mainstream school which has a zero tolerance policy - 95% of his issues have been talking/misbehaving in class/arguing with teachers which has meant him spending 15 weeks of last 18 week in isolation - despite 38 letters I have written to school these last two terms, backed up with letters from his GP, counsellor and our local MP that this only makes his behavior and anxiety worse.

Talking, misbehaving in class, arguing with teachers are the sorts of things that done repeatedly would get most students in most schools in isolation. I don't work in a zero tolerance school but we don't acvept students arguing back and preventing others from learning.

15 weeks out of 18 seems a lot. The MP saying stuff doesn't have much weight.

I'd expect a student who was defiant and repeatedly preventing other children learning to be out of circulation. It might be working in a support base (we have a room there which is essentially isolation because isolation is just a silent classroom, but for whatever reason some of our students with SEMH work better there), on a desk near head of year's office / in a pastoral area, but they wouldn't keep being in normal lessons.

It depends what allowances you were wanting. Are we looking at exemptions from behaviour policy/sanctions? Quality first teaching strategies?
E.g. I use a range of classroom strategies to support students with SEMH issues. I love working with those students. But if they are arguing with me, being defiant or preventing others achieving then the behaviour policy applies. It can't be considered ok to keep child 1 in the room refusing to work and being disruptive whilst saying Child 2 is straight out.

Hi I my DS is in year 11 and was involved in an altercation after school, he acted in defence of a younger pupil who was being bullied by someone in his year. The perpetrator has ended up the victim and the police are involved. My DS has been advised he will probably be excluded as a result of this, this is the first trouble he has got into at school and has a great track record, he has also recently just been assessed for dyslexia and it is believed he has severe dyslexic traits. He’s obviously due to complete his GCSE’s this summer term, which we all know have been cancelled and will be teacher assessed only. His current school have offered him a change schools to finish his terms, which is a big challenge for my son and he cannot go to this area as he fears he will be targeted. I am perplexed and feel overwhelmed with how best to help my child get the GCSES he needs to get an offered place at college. I want to challenge the exclusion (if it goes ahead as suggested) and am looking for advice or guidance of how best to go about this, should I get a solicitor or advocate? I don’t know where to start and time is running out.

@Myheadhurtstwo
I suggest you start your own thread.

When did this happen? Is your school not online learning now or is he in under keyworker/vulnerable?

Presumably the main issue is that your DS went beyond 'defending' into something more? (Either continued to fight after the other had stopped, or your DS threw a pre-emptive punch/whatever?)

Make sure you get clearly written down what lead up to the incident.
Make sure the younger pupil gives evidence.
Make sure any other mitigating factors are written down.

I'd also have your DS write a clear letter of contrition to the school saying how sorry he is, it won't happen again, he 'over reacted' and has learned his lesson or whatever and to please please give him a second chance.

When is the governors panel?

Thankyou for your reply, I am new to mumsnet and started a new thread shortly after, under the heading secondary school expulsion, perhaps better if we continue conversation over there, if you can find it.