SATs results as reflection on selective school acceptance

[Mumfortheroad]

Based on another thread mentioning state school banding where kids with top 10 percent SATS are not in the top 25 percent of a banding test for a comp - which makes sense as they test different things - I wondered how kids SAT scores relate to their acceptance in the top independent schools - are there cases of children who didn’t get above 110 (exceeding expected standard) who still got places in highly selective schools (I’m thinking say top 50 nationally) and also are there children who didn’t get into those schools but were exceeding the standards in SATS - would love to understand if there is any relation if any of you have specific examples?

I don't know if anyone keeps such statistics but if they did what will they tell you?

Not every child applies for private school so it's going to be fairly certain there'll be a very large number of children with top SATs marks not going to private schools.

The two things aren't connected are they?

My children got into top 30 schools and one only dropped a couple of points on the sats, while the other (who did better in the entrance exams in that she got offered more scholarships/more generous scholarships) did well on two of the three and not particularly well on the reading (but still greater depth).

I disagree with your conclusion about banding tests testing for different things than sats being the explanation for the Camden Girls thing (I'm on that thread too). The girls mentioned got sats of 117-120 and were in the B band - that's way higher than top 10% and doesn't reflect that Sats and banding test different things, so much as the fact that the test is taken by an abnormally high achieving cohort of girls.

BTW neither child got offered scholarships at top 30/50 schools I hasten to add (the scholarships were for the banker school/s). They're fairly bright rather than very bright.

In general independent schools are not interested in SATS children going into the top 30-50 schools will have sat entrance exams and this what the schools will use as their baseline. Many children going into those schools ( quoted figures are around 75%) will have come from the independent sector, so will not have sat SATS.
So summary it is highly unlikely that there are meaningful stats available.

I can't understand this question... SATS and independent schools don't mix. Dd goes to an independent junior school so won't sit SATS. How do you measure top 50 independent schools? Some of these won't start til age 13 so again not much link with SATs?

I get that Indy schools aren’t interested in sats and that children coming from private junior schools won’t have done them. I’m interested specifically in children coming from states schools. Huff I get that CSG also shows that they have a particularly high achieving cohort take the exam - but I know a girl who didn’t get exceeding in any of the sats but was band A at CSG and also got a place in a top 10 Indy school - so wondered if this was the norm. That doing well in SATS doesn’t mean a child will get into a selective school and not doing so well in sats doesn’t mean they don’t do well in different kind of exams. I guess because they are testing such different things - ability to learn in class as opposed to more iq type questions.

My DD got into a top 30 indie (no scholarship) from a state school. She did ok in Sats, all greater depth but not maximum scores (apart from spag). She had gentle tuition until December of year 6 which was targeted at entrance tests. After that she just did whatever she did at school. Her sats mock tests early in year 6 were pretty similar to what she actually got at the end of year 6, it didn't feel like the school put much effort into helping her progress because she was already at 'greater depth'. It's much harder for state schools to push the brightest when they have so many to get over the line and some schools perhaps don't bother when a child is already at greater depth. She is looking forward to some real stimulation in year 7.

Sorry I rambled a bit there. Not only are they looking at different things, they are looking at different times. If you already have a place for year 7 you may not be inclined to put a lot of energy into sats. Also I'm sure the independents are looking for potential (taking into account the background of the child i.e which school they are coming from) not only attainment.

I'm curious.. how are people identifying these top 50 indie schools? Is this some secret London list? Is it A level results?

Where we live the best indies don't start til 13 so there is no overlap between sats and indie entrance. You have another 2 years to go so I'm curious how these top schools are identified.

I would concur with the schools focusing on getting people over the pass line. DD1 was mostly bored at the state school she passed all KS1 sats and got greater depth or whatever in 2 but could have done better but the teacher was sweating over the 50% of the class who weren't going to pass..

My experience was the same as sweetandhappy’s. Dd was a banker for greater depth from the start of Y6 (ended up with 117 as her lowest mark) and she largely did her academic learning outside school for that year - some exam prep in the autumn term but mostly various forms of music. She has a place at a top 10 indy (based on historic, usual position in GCSE and A level league tables).

The entrance exams, while relying on an excellent grounding in maths and English, didn’t test those, more assumed them and looked to see how she could manipulate and use that knowledge to answer novel types of questions. Very different from SATs.

Although everyone seems in agreement that there's no direct correlation between success in selective independent school 11+ and sats, I sort of understand, I think, what the OP is asking as it was something I asked myself.

(Not meaning to put words in your mouth OP). When you're in the small minority of parents trying for these schools from a state primary, it can feel as though your children are a wholly different species from the blazered, badged-up kids you see at open days. And you hear all about their practice papers and mock interviews etc and you panic.

But actually clever kids are clever kids wherever they're educated. So if your child is doing well, top or near top of the class, at their primary then the chances ares they'll do well in 11+ with one hour's tutoring a week and lots of practice papers at home.

I remember our tutor being a bit down about one of my children and I said, 'but dd's top of the class at primary' and she scoffed as though this was no achievement given the high FSM nature, non-middle class nature of their school. Sure enough dd did really well in the exams, far better than gloomy forecast and far better than the vast majority of the tutor's other students.

Agree with Huff above, it's hard to compare when you're one of the minority state school entrants. If it helps, DS got a scholarship at a top 10-20ish school and scored 113, 119 and 120 in SATS. With a bit more focused teaching he probably could have improved the 113 (though it was his weakest subject), but to be honest he worked really hard for his entrance exams and I was not going to push him hard again for exams that just aren't going to matter that much for him - and his school had bigger fish to fry as he was almost certainly going to get GDS without them doing very much, whereas they had to focus their efforts on getting the borderline kids to Expected. It wouldn't surprise me either if there were others who scored a bit higher than him in the independent entrance exams, as there were lots of v clever kids and he had no paid for tutoring - but the school in question has a reputation for spotting and encouraging potential in state school kids, and not being overly impressed by over-confidence and a chestful of badges, so I think it was just a great fit.

My friend’s children both got full marks in their SATs and are now at top independent schools in London coming from state schools. I think their is a correlation between the two as intelligent children are going to do well in both 11+ and SATs.

Not quite what you asked but if you look at Tiffin and Tiffin girls, the most highly selective state schools, Tiffin had 3 middle attainers in SATs in their Y11 cohort last year (so they attained level 4 not level 5+), Tiffin girls had none.