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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Am I right to be angry ??

154 replies

Sometimesoon · 13/07/2019 12:58

My 14 year old chose his GCSE options earlier in the year , because he is in the higher pathway he has to follow the Ebac system , so he gets to choose 2 subject of his choice ( he chose Music and Graphics) . We heard last week he didn’t get Graphics . This is a child who predicted to get 7/8 , has shown consistently good marks in the subject , has a genuine interest in design , has done his work shadowing in the design sector and achieved a good attitude to learning grade from his teachers . This counts for NOTHING . He had been given art instead and we have been told basically, suck it up . His friends who are predicted a 4/5 have got Graphics ( but in a lower pathway ) we have been told everyone's choice goes in the computer and 95% of the pupils will get all their choices. This seems so bloody unfair . He works hard ,achieves good results and now had his career path screwed. Meeting the deputy head ( after chasing for a week) on Monday. Anyone else had this ? Anyone know what the legal requirements are as far as the school is concerned , Class numbers etc ? . Just want to get my ducks lined up before the meeting . Thank you .

OP posts:
xyzandabc · 14/07/2019 09:29

Most schools don't even offer graphics as a GCSE, so you DC won't be alone in not having this qualification. Many don't offer the A-Level so again, not alone.

If he's still set on a graphics A-Level in 2 years time and your current school say no, then look around at other 6th form options, plenty of student study gsce and A-Level at different places.

I've just googled half a dozen universities each for graphic design entry requirements and for product design entry requirements. Most of them said no particular A-levels required for graphic design, a portfolio is more important. For product design if they mentioned any subject for a level, it was art, art and design or design and technology, along with maths or physics. Neither had any requirement for graphics at either GCSE or a level. His career is not screwed.

You also say how unfair it is to put all the names in to the computer to allocate options. I honestly can't possibly see how it could be any fairer.
Absolutely everyone has an equal chance of getting what they want regardless of ability, effort, what their favourite subject/teacher is, what the teacher thinks of them, what their future aspirations might be at age 14. No bias at all from a computer.

Sometimesoon · 14/07/2019 09:32

Thank you for you constructive reply , it’s just so hard seeing him not being rewarded by the school in subject he has actually put time and effort into , there is no acknowledgement of that whatsoever.

Same with the label nonsense . His is “ specialist Arts school “

OP posts:
stucknoue · 14/07/2019 09:33

The reason will be time tabling, music and graphics will be in the same slot I suspect. Dd had this, in fact they were told in advance you couldn't do more than one design/practical subject because of coursework requirements too

Sometimesoon · 14/07/2019 09:39

The Graphics Gcse over subscribed. 45. Students but only 30 places opposed to 60 for art .

OP posts:
stucknoue · 14/07/2019 09:39

Why not suggest he drops music. You do NOT need music GCSE or a levels to go to music college, you need grade 8+ on principal instrument, grade 5 piano/keyboard(if not principal instrument) plus music theory. For a product design degree you do not need a level product design, maths was a prerequisite though, DD's boyfriend is starting in September.

Todaythiscouldbe · 14/07/2019 09:46

So are you asking them to put in an extra class or just allow your son to do graphics? There are 14 other students who are not doing their first choice of subject, have you spoken to any of the other parents?
I went through similar 2 years ago and there are some things you just can't get changed.

Soontobe60 · 14/07/2019 09:52

Your friend will be really pleased when you tell her that her son shouldn't be able to do graphics because he doesn't deserve to, so he should have his place to your son.
If the school have to,d you he would need graphics at gcse to do it at a level, then find a different place for his a levels when the time comes!

Soontobe60 · 14/07/2019 09:52

Give' not have

Sometimesoon · 14/07/2019 09:53

So previous results , atl , ability and interests count for nothing ? How can that possibly be fair on a child who has worked really hard , a kid who off his own back has found work shadowing placement at design companies, who has a good ATL . A place has been given to a kid who has the ability but is lazy , has been in trouble at school , called in sick on the work shadowing days , and takes a lot of time off during term time for holidays , I know because they are family friends , What kind of message is the school that sending him at 14 ?

OP posts:
Todaythiscouldbe · 14/07/2019 09:55

No message at all, because a computer allocated places in the subjects.

Teachermaths · 14/07/2019 09:56

The school is sending the message that options are decided fairly using a computer which has no bias. Everyone's options are considered equally and a best fit is given to all students.

Sometimesoon · 14/07/2019 09:57

Ideally put in a extra class , currently in talks with several parents who are in the same situation at the school , there is a possibility of paying for a private tutor , almost home schooling for that subject,

OP posts:
notapizzaeater · 14/07/2019 09:58

It's telling him life isn't always fair ! You all need to learn that

clary · 14/07/2019 09:58

Op you have had some excellent advice here (I don't mean my sarcastic comment!)

Teenx2 and ohtheroses have it, just clarify about graphics a level, get it in writing that he can do it with art GCSE (which as others say, really cannot be a problem), really don't mention other children, check how much graphics he can do in art and design (it really isn't just pretty pictures), job done.

Or look into other options for sixth form - lots of kids in this area move.

Sometimesoon · 14/07/2019 10:10

Believe me , it’s sent him a message , his hard work and effort that he’s put in so far is worthless. Is that acceptable ? In my family where we have worked hard to get what we have , it isn’t .

OP posts:
Todaythiscouldbe · 14/07/2019 10:11

You need to tell him that a computer has decided. The computer doesnt know who he is, it's not personal.

hellsbells99 · 14/07/2019 10:12

I know it is disappointing when they don’t get their choices. I would still try and push for it. Or see if school will run it as a twilight subject.
But it won’t stop your son doing a product design degree.
As an example, University of Leeds lists the entry requirements as:
A-level: AAA preferably including an Art and Design-related A-level such as Design Technology or Art and Design, and including a minimum grade B (6) in Mathematics and Science at GCSE.

clary · 14/07/2019 10:14

Well then maybe you should clarify that the 30 who get to do graphics are picked by a computer, as that is the fairest way, as opposed to based on grades, as people have pointed out. Possibly a student who has worked less hard at KS3 will put the effort in for actual GCSEs, I've certainly seen that happen. It's no reflection on yr ds and I would let him know that.

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2019 10:15

His is “ specialist Arts school”

Specialist school status got scrapped years ago.

Bit confused about work shadowing days in Y9. That’s unusual.

TroubleWithNargles · 14/07/2019 10:18

Schools do not and should not allocate subjects by ability

Eh?

So someone who has shown a high aptitude and/or an exceptional talent for a particular subject is denied a place on that course and not allowed to study it?

How very sensible. Hmm

wonkylegs · 14/07/2019 10:18

Speaking from experience there is rarely only 'one way' to do things especially with regards to careers although at first glance this may seem the case. Plenty of people go into these careers without a GCSE or even an A-level in this subject because it's not widely taught AND is a relatively recent addition to the subject list.
My sister won an extremely tough national graduate prize in Graphic design, she did gcse & A-level art not GD
My brother is a highly respected photographer (news/entertainment & publishing) he has a degree in engineering and has no taught experience in photography.
I'm an architect - I was told I needed a-level art to do my subject by countless people.....I don't have A-level art (I took maths, physics, D&T and German) but still got places at every university I applied to and took up a place at the then 2nd best uni in the U.K. for my subject. I then faced hurdles with my health where people told me I'd never be able to practice - I do, have my own practice and advocate for diversity in practice and education.
I know people in product design with PD degrees but also GD & engineering. There are usually many paths and GCSEs outside of the core subjects rarely narrow down that choice.
It may however mean that a slightly different path is taken, you have to push harder to get where you want to be or you may have to think laterally (I produced my own independent portfolio of artwork to show I could draw for uni interviews - this definitely was a bonus)
I'm not saying that arguing to be on the course may not work or that your son is not deserving but I am saying that not getting on it, really isn't the disaster you are making it out to be and it's important that both he and you know this.

Mythreefavouritethings · 14/07/2019 10:21

Redpostbox - why is the student with the 4/5 more important? Every child is important and every child’s parents are going to want to support them. I would have a constructive conversation, line up your points and perhaps take some points from here and use them to help show a balanced perspective. Discuss any concerns using really specific information. If it’s a no, can he get what he needs with what he’s got. Helpful to hear from people who know those working in the industry without this. Good luck.

sashh · 14/07/2019 11:25

If your husband is working in this area could he teach your DS outside school and school enter him for the exam?

So someone who has shown a high aptitude and/or an exceptional talent for a particular subject is denied a place on that course and not allowed to study it?

No, but a school should make subjects available to as many students as possible. SOmetimes there are restrictions eg you can only do computer science if you are in top set maths.

There is also an argument, particularly for lower achieving students to be offered a subject they may get a 3/4/5 in over a child who will get a level 8/9 if the 3/4/5 student is not going to achieve in another subject where the 8/9 student can take a different subject and get a top grade.

The 3/4/5 student may depend on this GCSE to get to college at all, the OPs son is not going to find it difficult to get to college / VI form.

SolitudeAtAltitude · 14/07/2019 11:27

You think your son should have been gi en preferential treatment due to his "superiority"....

That is not even the right starting point to talk to the school Confused

Piggywaspushed · 14/07/2019 12:00

The bigger issue is forcing kids to do EBacc thereby reducing other options. And the fault there likes with the DfE.

If an A Level pathway is definitely closed off to your DS (what happens with external applicants to the sixth form??) I would definitely express my concern about this. They can't tell people that doing EBacc keeps options open (which is not true) and at the same time close other doors.

This all rather lamentably fits into the reporting in the press this week about the huge drop in uptake at A Level of Arts and creative subjects. Surely they want to keep your DS in the sixth form?

I had a similar issue a few years ago with A Level Spanish. Enough protesting from me did see it running : but I never had the situation of suggesting my child was more worthy than others. Drop that discourse OP. It's unhelpful.