82% of teachers surveyed say pupil misbehaviour is widespread at their school

[noblegiraffe]

It’s not just untucked shirts either:

“with more than half (57 per cent) saying they had been verbally abused by a pupil in the last year, 18 per cent having been threatened with violence and 14 per cent having been physically attacked.”

Just to balance out the threads of parents complaining about schools enforcing the rules. Maybe there’s a reason for it.

www.tes.com/news/behaviour-widespread-problem-say-82-teachers

I don't think the 'it's the teachers' fault' thing was invented by Gove, to be fair (much as I loathe him!). It was very definitely the narrative when I started teaching in the early 90s.

What ahs changed is the response to the 'good old fashioned bollocking' both form kids and their parents : and, also, form the educational establishment. It used to be quite a thing to watch a horribly behaved miscreant being reduced to a quivering wreck by a deputy head. My old head used to refer to his 'banging on the desk routine'. It genuinely worked.

It used to be quite a thing to watch a horribly behaved miscreant being reduced to a quivering wreck by a deputy head. My old head used to refer to his 'banging on the desk routine'. It genuinely worked.

Agreed. But that'll get you slated on here these days.

I remember as an NQT having a difficult class for non gcse Rs which was full of rugby playing yr 11s. I asked the deputy head (NQT mentor) for advice and she sat in the back of my lesson one day doing her marking. They were never a problem after that. Just knowing that she was potentially aware of their misbehaviour was enough to influence their behaviour. Fast forward less than 10 years and the new head allows kids to get away with swearing at staff including year 8s who regular call SLT cunts.

I know duchess, I know...

There is a difference between a stage show bollocking and actual bullying which many do not get.

Glad to hear it @IHeartKingThistle We need decent teachers back in the classroom

I don't think the 'it's the teachers' fault' thing was invented by Gove, to be fair

No, but his demonisation of teachers in the press hasn’t helped.

I’m just thinking back before Gove and there seemed to be a view in the general public that behaviour in schools was bad. ‘God I couldn’t be a teacher’, metal detectors in schools, massive fights.

And since then that view seems to have been overwhelmed by ‘school puts kid in detention for wrong shoes’, ‘schools excluding too many pupils just to improve results’ and lately ‘isolation booths are the work of the devil’ and last week ‘giving pupils detentions in break time is a breach of their human rights’.

And I can’t see that behaviour has actually improved, but people are talking far less about it. Like it’s now shameful to admit that your Y9s have been acting up P5 on a Friday.

I think the big names on edutwitter don’t help by always giving the impression that things are going swimmingly in their classrooms by only posting their successes.

One big maths name recently posted that she’d really struggled with behaviour this year and it was honestly a revelation.

As was this survey, tbh.

It is the respect for the teaching profession that has gone. This lack of respect has been passed down from the parents to the children, also not forgetting the sense of entitlement both now have. If the basics of behaviour is not there, you cannot teach.

Another day, another story about how schools are getting it wrong in dealing with behaviour.

CofE bishop says schools need to stop excluding pupils because it pushes them towards gang violence and county-lines drug dealing. It’s totally confusing correlation with causation.

Why is the headline not ‘violent gang members and county line drug dealers should be kept in the classroom with your child’?

People would be outraged and demanding special and expert provision to deal with the problem.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/06/bishop-calls-for-church-of-england-schools-to-minimise-exclusions

noblegiraffe

don't forget the current craze of pivotal education.

Which seems to be another way of blaming the teachers for poorly behaved kids.

Is it really surprising?

Just look at MN as an example.
No child can just be a horrible little shit. They must have SN, or a bad home life, can't critique the parents as we don't know what they're going through

I've seen posts here where a poster is up in arms because her child has been shouted at. And it being called abuse! And that no teacher should ever shout at a child.

I'm a parent and would be more than happy for you to shout at DD if she was being a little git. Also happy if she was flouting school uniform rules (and that includes untucked shirts, rolled up skirts etc). Probably not so happy if she was shouted at for asking for a pen unless it was part of an on-going issue of poor behaviour/disruption. Also fine with detention, being given additional homework if she doesn't do it on time, being made to do laps of the field etc

I think what I would struggle with is teachers letting her or anyone else get away with it. That's not helpful to her, the rest of the class nor the teachers!!!

Pretty sure that I am not alone in this way of thinking.

Oh and she has got SN - mild ADHD and dyslexia. After she leaves school she is going to have to tow the line at work. So she might as well learn now

I agree with you that it's a problem. Dd had a very well qualified teacher (a Dr) who left after 2 months due to general behaviour. The school did bring in a new behaviour system after this involving disruptive children being removed more easily from lessons. I'm no teacher basher. I'm supportive of teachers on here and in real life. I get very good feedback about my own children's behaviour. (They get a behaviour grade each term for each subject at dcs school.)
I'm not sure what i can contribute on the subject really. Just replying as you wanted replies.

No surprise to me. I suspect teaching Ds1 and all his mates, who are very nice boys, from very naice families, GCSE stuff is just an absolute nightmare.

I have no idea where the teachers find the patience. we have seriously failed in our parenting of this generation.

I love ds teacher but it is very clear the students to teacher ratio is detrimental. Luckily they have 3ta in the class. Ds is only in reception but to his 1 teacher there are 35 kids! Yes, there are 3 ta but one of the them (rightly) focuses only on one child with autism.

@Number3or4 my DS had 1 to 42. I know there were TAs but like you it's ridiculous to allow it to get to that stage.

Have they got rid of the class size limit of 30 at ks1 now?.

Sadly some kids don't fear consequences anymore because they've grown up in an environment where any authority figures like teachers and police are seen as the enemy and are not to be respected. Agree also with PPs about the media adding to this with sensational headlines about schools and their silly rules. It is quite often the same parents who refuse to support the schools rules about behaviour, homework and uniform that also then want additional support for their kids. They fail to see how home and schools have to work in partnership and instead prefer to hand over the responsibility to schools and the authorities when it all goes wrong.

I feel very sorry for teachers. From what I hear from my kids there is a lot of bad behaviour (it's a decent middle class school). The thing that pisses me off is my very well behaved kids getting caught up in whole class detentions when they've done nothing wrong/being ignored a lot of the time due to teachers dealing with badly behaved kids/noisy kids distracting everyone and making the lesson hard for everyone etc etc. Not blaming the teachers at all but it's all very unfair.

And yes agree with Sherry19. The very short breaks mean less time for socialising and that means the school has less of a community feel than it used to.

DS goes to a computer club at lunchtime and they closed it down due to idiot kids mucking around. DH kicked off about that one and they reinstated it but it's now only open to certain kids. Pluses of being a parent governor!

@noblegiraffe
Whole class detention is a pretty poor show. But I also understand the impulse to do it.

Low level disruption is the worst for me at the moment. I really lost my rag today because Yr8 just could not stop talking. When did this happen? When did kids start to think it was ok to talk over instructions. I am quite fucking tired of it and also of the stock ‘I wasn’t talking’ response. I’ve just stood here and watched you talking. You were fucking taking Aaaaarrrgh.

@Titsywoo

You do realise lunchtime clubs are an extra that staff do in their free time and generally out of their own pocket. I have spent £200 of my own money on the club I run. Lunchtime is non directed. It is pretty awful to bollock staff for not giving up their lunch hour.

DS is going into nursery school with a class of 40. When I was teaching I swear the lint was 30?? Yes, again, there are TAs but 40 3-4 years is madness.

I’m surprised at the low % of parent abuse too. In my last school, which had less than 100 pupils and was nursery-year 2 and a church school, I had one parent threaten me repeatedly, culminating in the final threat of physical violence against me and my unborn child (was pregnant) and told that her husband knew where I parked my car.

I left teaching to bring up my son with the intention of returning, but I’m a part time receptionist in a hotel and fuck me but isn’t life easier??