Dance opportunities - should I email the school?

[christinarossetti19]

My dd is in Y7 of a local comprehensive with a specialism in performing arts. Chosen because it's a good school rather than the performing arts specialism, but as she's always been into dance and gymnastics thought this would give her some opportunities to continue.

Now coming to the end of Y7 and she's not managed to access any extra-curricular dance/gym. She went to after school athletics, but was the only child there, so it didn't run (fair enough). She 'auditioned' for the gym squad, never found out if she'd got in, and then was told that she couldn't take part because there'd been some rehearsal which she didn't know about (not being in the squad) so too late. She recognises now that she could have been more assertive 'I'll work hard to catch up etc' but it doesn't come easily to her.

There's a 'gifted and talented' dance group, which invitation is by the teacher noticing you in class and you being confident. She has one dance lesson a fortnight and is a quiet child in a fairly loud class - the teacher doesn't even know her name.

We saw the 'gifted and talented' dancers at a performance today, and it was well, well within her ability. She did ballet and tap to grade 4 during primary and stopped partly because the timings didn't work with her new school and partly because we thought she'd had opportunities to continue at secondary.

My dd was pretty upset after seeing these girls perform, as she knows very well that she's more than capable of dancing at least as well as them. She won't speak to the teacher about joining the group as she's certain than it's 'invitation only' and after plucking up the courage to speak to the teacher about doing gymnastics and it being so vague, she's really discouraged.

WIBU to email the school and asking if she could be considered for extra curricular dance? I'm the least pushy mum ever, but I would like her to do some more exercise, she loves dance, is good at it, has worked cooperatively and performed with others before etc.

If she had not passed an audition, fair enough, but it seems that if you're not 'picked' in Y7 then you've got no chance of accessing more dance further up the school, and that would be a shame that she has no access to this opportunity.

TIA

What do you mean ironic? What's ironic?

That op's dd was turning down lots of offers to be in squads etc in primary school but is now struggling to get into any clubs.

Just received a call from the school, saying that dd needs to speak with the dance teacher re: extra-curricular clubs. Fair enough, although this club is explicitly 'invitation only. I asked what she had to do to be considered for this particular club, which does the contemporary dance that she wants to do.

The teacher said that 'there weren't many spaces for Y7' and got very defensive when I mentioned that it seemed a bit coincidental that the girl out of dd's class who was recently 'picked' is the best friend of a girl already in the club. Other girls from her class were 'chosen' earlier in the year, but I didn't get into this.

I will tell dd to speak to the dance teacher, but it didn't sound very encouraging tbh. I do feel quite upset that of the three extra-curricular activities that she wanted to do, she hasn't been able to access any, and it's the obvious way to make friends in a school where you don't know anyone.

She's not a 'join anything' sort of child, so there's no point in trying to persuade her to join choir, drama, debating club etc.

The teacher was 'surprised' that dd hadn't known about gymnastics and said that it was on the timetable (it isn't and wasn't). I said that it was probably because she doesn't know girls in other classes to tell her things (only child from her primary school to go) and there's been a mess with their class tutor. She accepted this.

Another issue for dd has been that she didn't get her SATS results (the entire years results were annulled). She is the only child in her secondary school that was affected by this. It has meant that she has been given very low 'targets', which was quite demoralising for her. She's risen really well to this challenge, but it has meant that her confidence is easily knocked as not much has been expected of her. She's proved them wrong in most subjects where there is individual assessment, but in dance hasn't had this opportunity. (And yes, secondary schools do use KS2 SATS results to set targets across the curriculum including dance, PE and art as it's part of their progress 8 measure.)

Sorry for the length of this post. I am feeling very upset on her behalf. The 'we really encourage extra curricular activities' speel from the teacher really didn't ring true.

Dd didn't do Sats but they tested her in the first month themselves and the target is right for her. Can you ask them why the targets they've given her are lower than her ability?

I'm sorry that school weren't able to be more helpful. But I think that it's definitely worth her speaking to her dance teacher. Not to say that she wants to be in the invitation only club, but to let her know that she used to do a of of dance and would like to get more involved at school. There might be another dance group you are unaware of, or failing that, your DD could suggest another one is set up?

It's also worth talking to the PE teacher about sports clubs. Does DD known where they are advertised at school (at our school there are notices up on the PE corridor, and also in the student services pastoral area). There's also online information on the student portal. Your school will be different, but if she doesn't know, then again it's a goo dquestion to ask, or if there are DC in here class involved in clubs she is interested in, she could ask them? I'm just thinking that she's clearly missing out on information and this may simply be a case of she doesn't know where to look. My DD's year group FB group is absolutely full of posts from parents saying that their child doesn't know about x, and actually there was plenty of information provided, their child didn't know where to look.

I'd also encourage your DC to join other performing arts and sports clubs, even if they are not the main ones she is interested in. Firstly, she might gain a new interest, and secondly, it will get her known in the Performing Arts and PE departments. My DD plays in the school orchestra. She is not particulary good but because she's persevered, if a random musician is needed she will sometimes be asked just because she's there and to mind!

If your daughter is keen on dance , I would strongly suggest you also send her to classes out of school. State schools on the whole are not that string on sport and all the serious dancers at DC's school do the majority of their dance out of school. And, she might find she gets to know other DC from her school there!

Finally, does your school run a talent show? This would be another opportunity to get herself noticed.

What did she say when you raised it about the work being of a lower ability level?

Beautifulwintersmorning - state schools use KS2 SATS data to form their progress 8 measures to predict GCSE grades. Across the whole curriculum. Yes, it's bonkers but it's mandated by the govt.

They did CATS tests in the autumn term and she was set appropriately for maths, but these test results didn't affect her low targets - these are to do with progress 8. I dug out her autumn and spring reports, and she was given very low grades in dance and PE, much lower than the grades she received at subjects that the children are individually assessed at.

I took the view that this didn't matter as it didn't mean that she wasn't able at PE and dance, but in terms of teacher expectations, it does seem to have made a difference. She had the lowest targets in her class (due to no SATS results) so it has been particularly easy her not be considered to be 'good' at things.

I spoke again to the teacher who called me and mentioned the lack of SATS/low targets. She - like all the other teachers in the school - wasn't aware of this and was quite surprised and said that I could speak with Ms X about adjusting her targets across the curriculum if I wanted. I said that I'm not bothered about the data, although will address this at the beginning of Y8 if her targets haven't been adjusted according to her Y7 performance, but I am bothered about how low expectations are clearly affecting her in subjects where she hasn't had the opportunity to be assessed individually.

I've emailed the dance teacher again to draw her attention to why dd has a low target (and I can completely understand that with a list of names and targets, anyone would immediately assume which children were able) and asked if she can be assessed independently of her low targets. We saw two of the Y8 girls who she used to dance with in the 'gifted and talented' performance at the weekend, and I know it rankled with dd that she knows that she's at least as good as them!

I also mentioned dd being frustrated with being put into a small group with two girls who mess about in her fortnightly dance class (they organise the groups by height/size).

Re: other PA clubs. Dd isn't interested in choir or drama. She tried to access gymnastics and athletics to no avail despite being good at it. Not knowing children in other classes and having a succession of form teachers has meant that she hasn't found out about a number of things - gymnastics definitely wasn't advertised in the autumn term either on paper or online as she was looking out for it and would definitely had done it.

She does gymnastics out of school with a friend, and does a musical activity where she's the youngest and didn't know anyone. She's continued to go, although it's challenging for her socially. She's occasionally mentioned that she'd like to do dance out of school again, but wants to go with a friend. Ditto athletics, which she's working on persuading a friend to go.

I'm not looking for amazing dance opportunities in school, just a bit of a help to enable her to feel more part of things, continue doing something she loves and for her overall health and well-being.

I'm a bit worried that I might come across as a bit deranged and pushy with two emails and a phone call, but I actually do feel that it's time that she had a bit of a help when she's done well to overcome the disadvantages of low targets, not knowing anyone, mess of form tutor etc.

A bit puzzled by SATs affecting targets in dance and PE. Surely there is no correlation between maths and English, and PE and dance? Even if the school has artificially invented one, the relevant teachers must know that the targets are made up rubbish and not assume anything?

My DD did unexpectedly badly in her maths SATs and it' s affected her targets. I've told her to ignore them and work to the best of her ability. She's consequently at the top of set 2. If the school are working to targets and not actually paying any attention to the actual ability of the child, this is a serious concern.
And why on earth hasn't she been assessed individually in every subject by now? DD does some subjects on 10 week rotations, and she is always assessed once, and sometimes twice within the 10 weeks. Subjects running all year are assessed at least every term (most every half term). For a school that specialises in PA not to have done any individual assessmentsat this point in the year is pretty poor.

Beautifulwintersmorning - state schools use KS2 SATS data to form their progress 8 measures to predict GCSE grades. Across the whole curriculum. Yes, it's bonkers but it's mandated by the govt
I know that, but your dd (like mine) doesn't have sats results and therefore won't be included in Progress 8, so I'm not sure why your dd has been given a low target rather than one based on their own assessment of her

Unless you mean that your dd got low grades for maths and eng in their own assessments and that this then gave her a grade in dance and PE that was too low, in which case yes the grades for all subjects are based on maths and eng

I have no idea whether she will be included in the progress 8 data, but the school use the standard 'flight paths' to set targets/measure progress between KS2 and KS4 as do all state secondaries. They use SATS results in English and Maths to set targets for art, PE, dance etc - this is the progress 8 measure. Utterly bonkers, but central government mandated.

They did CATS tests in the autumn term and was placed in the top maths set, so clearly not a low score on internal tests.

It's a large London school and she was the only child affected by having no SATS grades, and none of the teachers that I've spoken to about it were aware that they had been annulled.

At Parents Evening in April, I had to explain to every teacher who expressed surprise at her low target why it was such. I'm not bothered about the data, but her autumn and spring report show very low grades for PE and dance, well below grades for other subjects. It seems that she has had the chance to show what she can do in subjects where they are individually assessed, not so in PE and dance.

The dance teacher doesn't even know her name, which is why I am so annoyed that my request that she even be considered for the g&t group was completely rebuffed.

I do intend to follow this up. If there is no joy ie the offer of an opportunity to be considered/being told exactly what she needs to get better at to be considered when she speaks to the teacher on Thursday, I will ask for a meeting.

I agree that no individual assessment for PE and dance is poor, as was her form not knowing about gymnastics (no children in her form do gymnastics as they weren't told about it in the autumn term when the squad was formed).

A combination of not knowing anyone when she started, a succession of form tutors and low 'target' grades have caused particular challenges for her. She's coped really well, especially as she's not a pushy person, but I do feel very strongly that she should at least have the chance to try out for the one club that she wants to do.

They use SATS results in English and Maths to set targets for art, PE, dance etc - this is the progress 8 measure. Utterly bonkers, but central government mandated.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of progress 8 targets. But I can confirm that other schools absolutely do set individual targets for individual subjects, based on their own internal assessments. And many schools review them regularly, swap sets around and adjust as they get to know the children properly during year 7.

If your daughter's school is blaming the government for how they run things, that sounds pretty poor. It's sounding like a school that has a distinct lack of focus on the individual child. Big schools don't have to be like that.

On the other hand, you are putting quite a lot of emphasis on the fact she didn't know anyone going into year 7. It's nearly the end of the year now and she's had quite a lot of time to make friends, find out how things work and spot what's going on. If that's not happening, you may need to work with your daughter as well, to help her be more assertive. I have a couple of very quiet children and I would be the last person to blame them for being overlooked ... but the reality is that learning to assert yourself is also an important life skill.

Korma unfortunately, I know far more about progress 8 than I ever wished to. KS2 SATS results are used by the government to measure progress from KS2 to KS4, and these form 'flight paths' in secondary school, hence them informing secondary school spreadsheets.

I've asked for a meeting with the head of year to ensure that dd's Y8 targets are set in line with what she's achieved in Y7. As I've said above, dd has been internally assessed and given appropriate grades in other subjects/put in appropriate maths set - it seems to be the ones where children are part of a group where the low target she was set via the 'system' due to her lack of SATS results have been an issue.

I received an email today from the dance teacher thanking me for letting her know about dd's lack of SATS results and saying that she will ensure that these do not influence her future targets and grades. I can completely understand how a teacher can look down a list of names with targets and make assumptions about children, especially when they only have fortnightly lessons.

I have worked very, very hard with my daughter to be more assertive over the years. She has gone from crying and clinging on to me from starting nursery at 18 months through to the end of Y1 and never going to anyone's house etc without me or her dad, to being a child who decided to go to the secondary school that she liked even though no-one she knew was going there and has done well to make friends in her class.

As I said above, she also goes to an orchestra out of school where she knows no-one and is the youngest by a couple of years. She's not likely to make close friends with 14 and 15 year olds she sees once a week really, and it strikes me as very important to have a range of friendships and interests throughout adolescence.

She's tried to access two extra-curricular clubs at school to no avail, and I'd like her to be able to access at least one, so that she can mix more with girls outside of her class.

I've left it to her to be assertive for the vast majority of Y7 and now feel that I need to step in a bit, as a third thwarted attempt to get into a club - for no specified reason - will make it difficult to encourage her to keep on trying.

From what you've said I think you've been absolutely right to have given her the chance to assert herself ... and also absolutely right now to get a bit pushy on her behalf.

For what it's worth, my daughter's school also uses a flight path system and categorically does not base them solely on KS2 SATs results. So don't let the school spin you the line that it's all the government's fault .

But KS2 - KS4 progress is how the government 'measures progress'. All schools have to record and report this data, even if they use other measures as well, which of course they do.

I do understand about the SATS results thing. Ds didn;t do SATS and so won't be included in Progress 8 figures but his targets across every single subject is a Grade 6. Now he is in Year 10 at the moment and his current Grades range from Grade 7/8 in Music, Grade 6/7 in maths right down to Grade 1/2 in Food and Grade 4/5 in English and Chemistry.

Yet his targets on his report never change from the Grade 6 set when he started at the school.

OP - I think yo need to get your dd some dance lessons outside of school. They will be far better quality than anything within school anyway.

Christina - If your dd's KS2 results were annulled (malpractice?) then your dd will not be included in the Progress 8 figures reported. Somewhere on gov.uk it states this. This is standard practice with all children who move from private primary schools to state secondary as well as situations like your dd's.

Dd didn't do SATs. Her target was set as 7.5 for everything based on the school's assessments when she joined. As Comefromaway says she won't be included in progress 8

Meant to say "based on the school's maths and Eng assessments