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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

AIBU to be upset with school re:sixth form?

93 replies

Bustarold · 16/05/2019 22:10

My DC is in y11 and in the middle of GCSEs. She wants to stay in her school for A levels. Recently her school has decided that students need 6 6s and above to be eligible to stay, including Maths and English. This is a comprehensive academy, not a grammar. DC has some SEN but is doing well, although she finds some subjects quite hard, and in line for a couple of 9s, and the rest 6s, 7s and maybe 8s. Science not great but not needed for humanities A levels. Maths probably a 5. What I am upset about is that DC asked head of year if they think she will be able to stay for 6th form, the reply was "will you get 6 6s and above?, lots of people will get 9s, you know?". No consideration for the fact that there is SEN (dyslexia and ADHD), and she's predicted 9s and 8s in the subjects she wants to do. No mention of the fact that DD is a model student and has never been in any kind of trouble. She might fall a bit short in maths, but I would expect a "well done for trying so hard, we know you find it difficult". I am quite disgusted that they put their own reputation and league table position before what should be duty of care. The pressure is enormous to get those high marks, lots of kids have given up. Many are going elsewhere for sixth form, but DD wants to stay as one of the subjects she wants to do is great there, and she loves the department. Are comprehensive schools allowed to select like this? All other 6th forms I know ask for 5s, and 6s in the subjects they want to do, which is so much more inclusive. The system is becoming increasingly heartless, I am not surprised that so many teenagers are stressed and depressed. Rant over.

OP posts:

Wolfiefan · 16/05/2019 22:50

Unfortunately A levels aren’t compulsory. Neither are they suitable for everyone. If you think A levels are right for her and the school won’t accept her then time to look elsewhere.

klendraa · 16/05/2019 22:51

@professorpecked
Not really, at all. At most colleges, only math and sciences have specific grades required other than 5 A* -C OR 5 9-4.

Other courses, especially ones not studied at gcse level, have no entry requirements at MOST colleges.

bestbefore · 16/05/2019 22:52

HoY sounds insensitive to me, maybe they were just in a rush or just didn't think.
If she has an offer to attend then just take note of that. I also believe schools get specific budget for 6th formers so would be keen to have as many pupils as possible on board. I know they want the higher achieving students but your dd sounds like she's more than capable - good luck to her

Blessthekids · 16/05/2019 22:57

I think the HoY was not really thinking when he/she replied. I doubt very much that if your dd did well but got a 5 in maths they would not let her continue. If she wanted to do maths A-level then perhaps but otherwise I honestly think they will be fine about it. I would try not to worry but why not have a word with her form tutor and discuss your concerns diplomatically. Having her form tutor on your side will help.

Original poster

Bustarold · 16/05/2019 22:57

Thanks bestbefore, she really is. I teach and examine one of the subjects she wants to do and have no doubt she'll get at least an A at A Level.

OP posts:

RainbowMum11 · 16/05/2019 23:19

Fair enough - I don't get the new grading system at all, doesn't make sense to me!

RilkeanHeart · 16/05/2019 23:38

Some depressing responses here. Yes, A levels are hard, but suggesting that a child who gets one or two 5s (high Cs in old money) in subjects they don’t intend to take any further shouldn’t then be able to pursue subjects in which they might excel is incredibly short-sighted.

FrLukeDuke · 17/05/2019 00:01

wolfie as I said, she's getting 2 9s and one 7/8 in the subjects she's taking for Alevel
I agree with you op. Those grades are fine for her to take those A levels.

professorpecked · 17/05/2019 00:11

klendraa - op has said that there is an entry criteria for her dd's sixth form.

AlunWynsKnee · 17/05/2019 00:21

You need to start talking to them about adjustments for her SEN. If she misses her maths grade by one band but isn't doing science or maths, is it really an issue if she's not picking those subjects at A Level? If she wanted to do Maths with a 5 it would be fair enough.

Original poster

Bustarold · 17/05/2019 07:18

Universities have recently written to the department of Education to express their concern that students are being put off applying to maths and maths related degrees, also modern languages. New exams are harder and anything less than an A frowned upon, and the results are young people who develop mental health issues and are no longer considering certain degrees.

OP posts:

mumsneedwine · 17/05/2019 07:38

OP that sounds a really stupid system. Getting a 6/7 minimum in subjects you are going to take for A level - very sensible as they are hard ! And getting 5 GCSEs so show can work hard - good idea. But why necessary in maths and English ? There's a reason we have November resits for them. I'm sure you could make a very good argument under the disabilities discrimination act and equal access. Good schools shouldn't care less about stupid, ridiculous, idiotic league tables (anyone can be top of those if you cherry pick the brightest and manage others out). I'd ask for a meeting with HOY, calmly explain how comments like that damage mental health and explain why she can't just retake maths if she has what's needed for A levels. Good luck to your DD - exam period is stupidly stressful. I say this as a parent and a teacher.

SabineSchmetterling · 17/05/2019 07:45

I’d be amazed if she doesn’t get a place due to one grade 5 in Maths. All of the schools and colleges around here require more than five 9-4 grades (or even 9-5) for A Level but not even the local superselective grammar rules them out based on one grade 5 in a subject not related to what they want to study. That being said, I do know of one school a bit further afield that gets 10 applications for every Sixth Form place and where their oversubscription criteria mean you won’t get on to the most popular courses without mainly 8-9 grades. That’s actually a comprehensive in a fairly deprived area too, but their sixth form is so successful that people compete for places from miles away.
Unless the school is that wildly popular she’ll get in with those grades, I’m sure.

Original poster

Bustarold · 17/05/2019 07:47

I'm sure you could make a very good argument under the disabilities discrimination act and equal access I have thought about it, but my children would be mortified as it would highlight their insecurities (both at same school and with same SEN profile, different years). But I am more tempted to do exactly that. I spoke to the Senco about this and had the same robotic reply about school's rules and how hard A levels are, even after I explained how well she's doing in Alevel subjects. It's unbelievably ignorant.

OP posts:

sendsummer · 17/05/2019 07:51

Sounds an unhelpful response that did not pick up on your DD’s worries As PPs have said though she meets the requirements of 6 ‘6’s so should be fine for admissions.
Your DD and you seem to be concerned though that a 5 for maths,despite her easily achieving the 6 ‘6’s (and maths not being relevant for her A levels), will exclude her?

That is how the question should be phrased and addressed to the head of sixth form with an explanation that this worry is causing your DD stress especially with her SEN.

Original poster

Bustarold · 17/05/2019 07:56

And even if they let her stay after all, the comments from HoY and the rigid attitude of the school in general are contributing to he anxiety, so I'm not happy. Yes, it is a very popular school and oversubscribed, as they trumpet at every opportunity.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bustarold · 17/05/2019 08:00

OP posts:

FloatingthroughSpace · 17/05/2019 08:05

My son is autistic and at a grammar school sixth form. The published entry criteria is 6 grade 6 including ma and eng at grade 5.
Only because his school know him and are not bastards they assured him that they have a duty of care towards him and if he did ok in his A level subjects they would look after him. In fact he got 5 GCSEs at 6 and above, including failing Eng lit and Lang at grade 3. He's retaking eng Lang for the third time this Summer. To be clear, he fails because of his autism and communication difficulties; his standard of written English is very good but he can't do it at speed.

The school need a certain standard for A levels, of course, but you are right that sometimes they are more interested in protecting their stats than supporting children with sens.

BallyHockeySticks · 17/05/2019 08:12

There are pros and cons of A levels. One of the pros for children like your DD is that it gives children with a "spikey profile" a chance to give up what they struggle with and really play to their strengths. I do think you need to sit down in a quiet private room for a meeting and make your case. But you're right, I too would be doubting whether it's the best place for her.

Is it worth talking to her teacher's of the subjects she wants to do for A level? Get them in to bat for her.

BallyHockeySticks · 17/05/2019 08:13

*Ugh, teachers not teacher's. I don't know why my autocorrect is so against me using plural's.

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/05/2019 08:14

As PPs have said though she meets the requirements of 6 ‘6’s so should be fine for admissions

I think the issue is it is 4 GCSEs at grade 6 and above and grade 6 and above on English and Maths. Which is probably not going to happen. Regardless of the fact that ops Dd is not taking Maths A level.

MollyButton · 17/05/2019 08:18

Not all British schools are like this!
But if her school is there is little you can do, except find a good alternative.
If this is a change to the previous regime then it could be a new head who is trying to impose a new system. And the school is becoming "less supportive".

If she does have SEN then somewhere else might be much better for her. For example near me there are two sixth form colleges, one is very rigid and you either conform to their way or are encourage to leave/chucked out, the other has a lot more flexibility and treats students as individuals, or my DCs sixth form which is a confusing mix of treating them like adults (not always listening when parents say there are problems) and treating them as children (having to be in school in free periods).

If you don't have a back up place, I would go and look at alternatives - for most places it isn't too late.

EleanorReally · 17/05/2019 08:23

ime you can only progress to year 13 if you have c in the mocks at least
sixth form/a levels are tough. no getting away from it.

MollyButton · 17/05/2019 08:24

Eleanor - not true at all schools! And even a grade E can be useful; to some students.

dottiedodah · 17/05/2019 08:27

The facts are no matter how much you speak to them and try to put your point across .They are in the driving seat and will be able to pick and choose the students with the best grades.Perhaps now would be a good time to look around at Colleges ,other schools within the area and see what they are like .I agree that she should be able to stay there ,but many schools view 6th form as a seperate unit ,and will treat admissions as they would children coming into year 7.A levels are hard and the school are looking for the best results to boost their results .

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