Slow processing speed

[RaveOn]

Does anyone know anything about processing speed?

My DD has autism and dyspraxia. She has a lot of difficulties, but apart from handwriting, school work has always been a strength up till now. At primary school she was above average, and she did well in her SATs, particularly English.

She is now in year 7 and is suddenly having lots of difficulties with her work, and we don't really understand why.

She is finding it hard to follow lessons, particularly when the teacher is doing lots of talking at the front of the class - she says she finds it impossible to keep up with. She says she doesn't understand when teachers explain things - but everyone else seems to follow it.

She is also have lots of problems in lessons that require a lot of writing, eg. english, RE. She can't seem to write more than a paragragh, and then gets stuck. This is having an impact on assessments - in English they are expected to produce a piece of extended writing (teacher says 1.5 - 2 pages) but DD can only write a paragragh - even when given extra time. She has a laptop so it's not handwriting that's the issue.

Does this sound like slow processing speed? Is it possible for a child with this difficulty to do well at primary, and then struggle in secondary? Is there anything else that could be causing these difficulties?

She already has an EHCP, but she is being reassessed by Ed Psych on Tuesday because she has missed a lot of school due to anxiety/school refusal.

We really want to get to the bottom of what is causing her anxiety in school. One of the things she mentioned was panicking because she can't follow what the teacher is saying - so I want to ask them to check her processing speed and anything else that could be causing her problems, but as ed psych time is limited I dont want to ask her to spend it on unnecessary tests. Any ideas/advice welcome

It might be that the teacher is giving a number of instructions at once and she can't take them all in. She acts on the first one, but then can't remember the next and gets in a panic.

I am trying to get my year 8s to take in 3 instructions at a time, but they are fairly simple and common sense: e.g. switch off your keyboard. hand in your music sheet, sit down in your place with your book open. If it is practical work, I always have instructions on the board as I do have a number of bright kids who cannot take in lots of information.

Has your DD tried ditching writing altogether and answering verbally? Sometimes they get what I call "blank paper syndrome" where they stress about how to start writing, so the panic sets in and they don't write anything. Maybe if you could sit down with her and ask her to explain one of the tasks out loud, it might help to unblock something.

It's not just instructions, its general teaching as well. So teacher is explaining some concepts in ie. Geography and she can't follow what they're saying. Or explaining how to complete a maths problem, and she doesn't understand what they're saying so doesn't know how to do her work. She says everyone else in the class seems to follow and understand. If she asks for help, she says the teacher just ends up doing the sum for her so she still doesn't learn.

The school have mentioned a scribe, DD says it won't help as it's not the actual writing, but knowing what to write which is the problem. She's even less eloquent verbally than written down, and has horeendous social anxiety, so this would just add to her stress levels I think! She has no difficulties getting started, she just can't seem to write more than a paragraph. Maybe its organising her thoughts into an extended piece if writing, maybe its concentration, maybe she doesn't know what she's expected to write, I dont know.

Y'up.

One of my DDs has dyslexia and dyspraxia.

W thought she had a hearing problem so took her to be checkedbut her hearing is spot on. GP was useless in this respect and it took us researching to figure out what the issue was.

The things she can't do:
Focus on one person speaking if there's any background noise. She just can't hear them;
Take in more than one instruction at a time;
Process instructions (written or verbal) without having a moment to unravel it in her brain.

She's hopefully about to graduate with an (anticipated) 2:1 in Linguistics. It's been a case of figuring out what works for her in terms of study and revision, i.e. recording lectures, writing out everything, lots of different highlighters, and a stubborn determination to get to where she wants to be.

If I remember right, DD used the a cloud type mapping system to enable her to understand and remember things. I'll drop her a msg and ask for details and whatever coping strategies she had that either I didn't know about or have forgotten about.

DS has slow processing as well as other spld. His adjustments are that he is given instructions verbally as well as in writing (either a printout or email). Also if taking down things from the board he gets et. Also ET in exams and tests.

If they start with this then the instructions as to how to do a piece of work may make it clearer to her and then it may help her formulate what she is supposed to be getting down on paper. I agree a scribe probably will not help. DS is also less able to verbalise his thoughts but can now do so at a high standard on paper.

Gosh your poor daughter.
My daughter started high school in september and just fell apart. She went from being a high achiever at primary to a jibbering mess in high school to the point they decided she might be autistic. She wasn't though - what the austitic specialist after they tested her said that the english part of her brain was highly developed but her working memory part of her brain was poorly developed and a) she both has trouble with her working memory (which I think is what you call processing) and if her working memory did not develop properly then its likely she is behind emotionally and socially...and it all equals anxiety. Plus with puberty childrens brains start to rewire also causing them stress and anxiety.
I am not a professional but I think two things might be happening with your daughter"

1. When you are stressed and panicked you don't breathe properly. This results in your brain not getting enough oxygen and you can't think properly or remember anything. I think there is a very physical reason she is struggling. Do this excerise with her - ask her to close her eyes and listen for the sounds outside of her head and list them to you. Do this for 2minutes. This is outside listening - when we are stressed we start thinking in our head ie internal listening. But internal listening delays the processing time because she can't listen to the teacher and herself at the same time. Encourage her when she is feeling stressed do three things - a) take two deep breaths so she can get oxygen to her brain b) listen for sounds outside of her head and b) stare at a spot on the wall - this will relax her (try this yourself).
2. I also suspect her infant reflexes have not gone dormant. Turn the light off, and slowly shine a torch into one of her pupils - if her pupil remains big its because she has adrenaline surging through her body - she is constantly in flight or fight mode. Her sense are on high alert all the time - its exhausting and possible adding to the fact she is finding it hard to concentrate. There is a brushing techique which can be used to help the infant reflexes go dormant - once they go dormant this process will trigger further brain development for her and she will be calmer. This is an alternative therapy but I have seen it work in my son who was considered borderline autistic at 5 (no eye contact) and he has just been tested for autism by the top autisic doctor in UK and we have been told he is now perfectly Neurotypical (normal eye contact too). We are starting to use the brushing technique on my daughter to help trigger improvements in her working memory and it seems to be helping - she is much calmer. It is literally 5mins a day of brushing so not intrustive to the day. We see this man Bob in Windsor who has been doing it for 20 plus years (I found him on mumsnet in the SEN section) - I highly recommend him. www.accesspotential.org/our-team Hope your daughter finds her way. good luck.

My DD1 has dyspraxia (only formally recognised in y11) and she had problems similar to what you describe.

We found the following helped:

• teachers writing key things on the board as well as saying them
• being given handouts to annotate rather than having to write everything down
• typing - this freed up some brain bandwidth away from the handwriting

Unfortunately DD also had the same issue of 'not knowing' what to write. If prompted she knew much more than she wrote, but she couldn't recall it logically. An analogy that helps me explain is this:

• most people's brains are like well ordered filing cabinets, with cross referencing between them
• DDs is like you've taken everything out of the cabinets and placed all the info randomly around the room, so one bit doesn't associate with other related things.

We tried mind maps etc to help her to write more, but not really to any good effect. She ended up dropping history GCSE and only got her English due to excellent CAs. With science she improved with practice. She started by giving 1 sentence answers to 6 mark questions. But by looking at mark schemes she learned to say more even if she thought she'd already answered the questions. Maths was practice, practice, practice at home with me 1-1. I did almost all her GCSE revision with her too as she couldn't organise it herself.

Ed Phyc can test working memory, and processing. Sounds like working memory might be an issue. I think that's information they can hold in their head, so verbal instructions etc fall into that. Following what the teacher says may also but I'm not an expert.

Thanks that's all really helpful.

TeenTimesTwo your DD sounds very similar to mine. The filing cabinet analogy is excellent - I suspect that's what is going on with my DD too. Your DD has done so well to get her English GCSE- sorry if it's a daft question but what does CAs stand for?

This sounds like me - I certainly identify with this way of thinking!

She needs to ask for everything to be written on the board or on a worksheet or textbook. It's extra work for the teacher but if they're willing to provide a scribe then ask for someone to organised everything as written instead?

In an emergency I find I can remember spoken instructions much better with my eyes shut if that helps.

It sounds like executive functioning problems, which is common with dyspraxia. (Exec Func includes working memory). The filing cabinet problem is an excellent metaphor. I have ADHD inattentive and I have crap executive functioning as well. I can't imagine having an organised "filing cabinet" in my mind :) Multi-step instructions are really hard. I agree having them written down helps.

If you look up strategies to support executive functioning, you might find some useful tips. But also just learning what the executive functioning system does can help, because essentially that's what you need to externalise or scaffold (have someone prompting her) if possible - just be aware that if scaffolded, she will not magically pick it up even if she does it 100 times under supervision. Once the scaffolding is gone she still won't be able to do it. She'll likely need strategies to compensate for this for life.

Rave CAs are Controlled Assessments, which don't exist any more for most subjects, including English. Luckily DD did GCSEs 4 years ago before they all changed.
DD's problems with the English Lang exam papers weren't recognised until mocks (too busy doing the CAs) so we had a mass panic trying to learn how to answer the questions. It ended up being a bit 'painting by numbers' but she improved enough to scrape by.

Secondary work is harder than primary, and KS4 harder than KS3, so even if someone has coped earlier things can feel much harder later.

We ended up relying on revision guides, not her exercise books at all as they weren't clear/complete/comprehensible.

Yes I can see she needs things to be written down to back up the teaching, DD even says it's easier to follow if the teacher does a powerpoint as well. I'm just worried that this won't happen/ won't get written into her EHCP unless there's good evidence she needs it. Her/me saying she needs it as she finds it difficult is not enough - bitter experience talking here.

I'm not sure about working memory. She has an amazing memory for facts and things she's read. Anything verbal seems to go in one ear and out the other....

At her previous ed psych assessment she did 2 cognitive tests:

"I assessed RaveOnDD's cognitive abilities using BAS 3 School Age version. Working 1:1 with me RaveOnDD engaged well sharing her ideas competently. During the formal assessment tasks she could lose focus or become distracted particularly if prompts and reminders were not given to return to task.
Two subtests were completed only:
Verbal similarities 98 percentile - very high
Non-verbal Matrices 16 percentile - below average
lnterpretation
Only two subtest of the full cognitive assessment were completed,
performance indicates that understanding and use of language is a significant strength as RaveOnDD's score fell within a 'Very High' range. Analysing and engaging with non-verbal tasks such as problem solving may at times be more challenging for RaveOnDD however performance was towards the higher end of the 'Below Average' range".

Nothing jumps out there except - if her understanding and use of language is such a strength why can't she follow the teacher in class?

Agree re scaffolding. DD needed much more support across secondary than her peers. No way could she have been left to organise revision for herself.
As an example. Every school day for 4 years she'd come home, go upstairs, get changed, come down. I would ask her if she had any homework. She'd say, not sure, I'll go check, and went upstairs to check in planner. She never learned to either just remember, or to check when she got changed.
DD2 on the other hand comes through the door and knows what subjects and due dates with no problem at all!

DD doesn't even USE her planner. If it's not on the homework app she doesn't do it! Homework has been a massive issue. She has now dropped a subject and completes her homework with a TA in the free periods she gets.

OP. I've got a document we were sent by OT re classroom strategies. It originally came from the dyspraxia foundation according to the info on it, we found it very useful (we had actually put a lot in place even before we had the diagnosis). If you would like it, PM me your email and I can send it to you.

Is there a reason why only two sub tests of the cognitive assessment were completed? The others might give some more info on working memory and processing speed. When was the assessment done?

With current info I would say that it sounds like anxiety is perhaps affecting concentration and therefore working memory. Or perhaps making it hard for her to try things, in case she ‘fails’. Processing speed is more about how quickly information can be taken in and understood - how is her reading?

Thanks TeenTimesTwo I've pm'd you :)

easterlemma no reason except Ed Psych time is very limited It was done as part of her EHCP assessment at the end of Year 5.

Her reading is excellent, she has a reading age of 17. She has no difficulty taking in written info. Just verbal / auditory info it would seem.

Anxiety could certainly be making things worse for her. Unfortunately for DD school = anxiety. And has done since she was 4.

DS has dyslexia with poor processing speed and working memory.

It's important to realise that different bits of one's memory work in different ways - so the working memory is the very short term use and throw away part of memory. Think of it as being like a stack of post-it notes, only written in ink that fades in 30 seconds to a couple of minutes, whereas medium and longer term memory are more like your fancy diary written in your best handwriting!

DS actually has a really good longer term memory - he's brilliant at things like remembering song lyrics. But he can't hold a set of instructions for doing a task in class easily - he'll leave a step out or get the steps in the wrong order.

Processing speed - he can do tasks like maths problems or reading comprehension, and given enough time is good at them, it just takes him longer.

(The "whole lesson to painstakingly write one paragraph" issue is one I recognise.)

Sounds just like my ds, also year 7. He had auditory processing disorder (APD). Look it up and see if it fits.

I’d consider asking for a full cognitive assessment which includes working memory and processing speed. This shouldn’t take longer than 3 hours (including face to face time with your daughter to complete the assessment and scoring/interpreting/report writing for the Ed psych). This would give more information on your dds cognitive profile, not just from the assessments themselves but the way she approaches them. You could perhaps then rule in/out factors like working memory or processing speed. It would also give you more evidence for any adjustments like supplementing verbal info with written info in class, giving dd more time for tasks, supporting her with anxiety management etc. in her EHCP.
Full disclosure - I work in this area, so I’m speaking as a professional rather than a parent!

I'm not sure about working memory. She has an amazing memory for facts and things she's read

This is me. I’ve got a great memory for things I’ve read, but a weaker working memory (read her a string of numbers and see how long a string she can remember, think about 7 is usual, I can do about 4 or 5).

If she’s above average academically, teachers will expect her to be able to hold lots in her head at once, like sequences of instructions - is she now in sets? She needs instructions and information to be presented visually in words too, and this could be put in her EHCP. Giving her information in a textbook/handout would also help, or printing off the PowerPoint.

If she is losing confidence, then ask for the scheme of work and see if you can pre-teach some concepts to boost her confidence in lessons as she will already have a basic idea of what is going on?

In terms of coping in maths (I’m a maths teacher), I have to write all my working out down (I can’t hold it in my head) and my mental arithmetic is crap so I rely on written calculations.

I’ve started watching TV with subtitles too.

I agree you should consider Auditory Processing Disorder - it often co-occurs with dyslexia and other neurodevelopmental disorders, but is not well known. This has information on APD

www.chimehealth.co.uk/web/data/apd-booklet-clearing-the-waters-2.pdf

@easterlemma gives good advice I think.

Don't consult dr google. Instead of telling the Ed psych exactly what you want them to test, give them a list/description of your concerns and observations and say you think it would be helpful to know whether it could be processing speed or something else. They have had loads of training to choose the most suitable tests if they think that's what's needed.

Sometimes it's helpful to consider: do the problems seem to be at the input stage (eg listening/understanding), the processing stage (organising, remembering) or the output stage (eg writing, talking, motor skills). Sensory integration can be an issue with autism so can get overloaded if too much going on.

Btw my dd has processing speed issues, you can see it in all aspects, it's like there's a slow internet connection, things do go in but they just compute slowly and the output is slow.