New GCSE grade 9 vs A/A* etc

[crumpet]

Grade 9 is supposed to be the equivalent to an A*, with Grade 8 being the “old” A, and Grade 7 equivalent to an A.

I can’t help feeling that this isn’t how it will ultimately play out in practice, and that fairly quickly the 9 will be treated as an A*, meaning that a 7 will be treated as a B rather than an A. Am I being unduly pessimistic?

Proportionally only the top 3ish% will get a grade 9 which is fewer students than used to get an A*.

Also a grade 4 currently counts as a pass, and a 5 is a "good pass" so a 7 will be seen as better because it is 2 grades above the 5. If you equate 5 to a C (doesn't really work like that) and therefore 7 becomes an A (ish).

Nope. I think that's how everyone will start to see them.

In Edexcel's IGCSE maths exam last year, the requirement for a 9 was 75%...Bit difficult to see that as an A**.

Yes kids get an 8 then top 3% will be turned into a 9. Soon people will forget about ‘a 5 is an low B etc’ but will probably take a few years. Hopefully they don’t then decide to change it all again (except to get rid of the exams all together I’d be delighted!)

There is a formula for how the proportion of grades 7, 8 & 9 are being calculated for the first couple of years, so that the guinea pigs weren't put at a disadvantage by the new grading system. I'm sure they deliberately made grade 9 the top grade, so that there 8s scope to create a grade 10 eventually. After all, A*s didn't exist in the GCSE system until they started to award too many grade As.

I can’t help feeling that this isn’t how it will ultimately play out in practice, and that fairly quickly the 9 will be treated as an A, meaning that a 7 will be treated as a B rather than an A*

On mumsnet, yes

It's all a fuck up. And very stressful for the kids who started off being graded a-e and now are moving to 1-9. Schools still put a lot of pressure on the level 7/8 kids to get the 9's even though the scoring of 9's is completely out of the control of the kids.

I am not sure.
My dcs' school (average comprehensive) doesn't seem to be predicting or aiming for any 9s at all, as a matter of policy, even for the best kids in the stuff they are best at, whereas my friend's dd is at a girls' private school where everyone who would previously have been expected to get A* is now being expected to get 9s in everything.
Both of these approaches seem fraught with disadvantages and if this is typical it will just increase the gap between state and private.

I agree. I'm already doing it even though I know I'm wrong. DS will be sitting GCSEs next year but all tests are now marked on this scale, when he gets a 7 I'm already thinking that's like a C purely because there are two more grades above it!! I know this is ridiculous but I genuinely have to keep checking myself with it.

I absolutely agree "justhere". And I've already noted that schools only talk now about how many 9s the top performing students got. A pupil who comes out with all 8s will probably end up feeling like a B student which is ridiculous. I am old, miserable and I hate change.

My Ds2 who is bright but hasn't done as much work as he might is now making noises about "I think I'll get 7s and 8s, no 8s" - but if you think thats a clutch of As and A*s we should all be happy! 🤔

If dd comes out with all 8s she will most definitely not think shes a B student! She'll be dekighted with 7s and 8s.

I told you, it will literally only be on mumsnet that people think of a 7 as a C

The schools around here aren't just talking about those getting 9s, they are talking about higher achieving students getting 7-9s.

There is no point worrying about how they look though, those getting grades at that end of the scale are very likely to be moving on to take further qualifications so no employer will be worrying if it is an A or a B.

Sorry 7s and 8s, no 9s!!!

8 is half way between a 7 and a 9 when they calculate it with the formula. Basically anyone who gets a 7 has an algorithm applied to find the 9 grade boundary, then the 8 is half way.

Only 3 - 3.6% ish get the 9. I think last year only 700 and something actually got 9s across the board.

Ds1's school are saying 7+ realistically but in maths if you are getting 97% then it will probably be a 9.

I don't think anyone thinks a 7 is a B. It is most definitely an A. 6 is a B.

I think people should just accept that anything 7-9 is pretty damn good.

As a parent of someone who we will be delighted with a bunch of 4s when the time comes, I think that anyone feeling failure at 7s needs to be gently given a reality check. Yes they may be disappointed, but 99% of the time 7s will be more than good enough for the next stage.

I think that anyone feeling failure at 7s needs to be gently given a reality check.

Couldn't agree more. No wonder the mental health of our young people is so appalling when the educational goalposts keep being moved and the expectations raised exponentially.

Couldn't agree more Teen. My colleague was saying that at her daughter's school there are students in tears because they are so worried that they will only get 7s. When I was at school getting a bunch of Bs and Cs was considered good. That's because it is good!

There's only 1 thing I can think of off the top of my head where a 7 might not be good enough, and that would be to do Further Maths A level.
(N.B. I am discounting highly selective schools where they set ridiculously high entry levels in order to be able to boast about their A level results 2 years later.)

I took my gcse in 1996 just after A* was introduced. An A/B grade was considered very good and above that was for top students. It was the ones expected to go to Oxford etc.

When I look at my grades (10 Bs and a C in lit) I was considered a good across the board student.

When I now think that's a 6 (and high 5) it doesn't seem as good and the lit would be 4/5.

My ds is predicted 4-8 across his subjects. That's A" to C. All good imo. But the 4s just don't seem to attract positive attention. Maybe because it's less than halfway between a 1 and 9?

I do worry about what you are all saying. That some people won't see the 6/7/8 as the achievements they are. Especially when the exams have also got harder and are difficult language wise.
Yet I never got A" or an A. (7/8)

I'm actually a bit confused with your post OP. My understanding is that the number grades do not directly map onto the letter grades. So, a 6 is the top end of B and the low end of A, 7 is the top end of A and the low end of A, with 8 and 9 above that. So 9 is a strong A**.

It is true, schools do group results into 7-9 in their analysis. 7 or above is hard to achieve.

I think a 7 will always be seen as strong but inevitably the fact that there are two grades above it, is bound to diminish it in some people's eyes.

The difficult area is for students who have to get a 5 in English and Maths where they previously had to gets C. A 5 is the low end of B and the top end of C.

avocado You are right they don't map directly, but your mapping is slightly off.

7+ is pegged to A& A*
4+ is pegged to C+

So a 6 can't be an A, and is thus a mid/high B
5 is a high C/low B
4 is a low/mid C

I thought the grading was that a 9 was a high A, 8 was a low A/very high A, 7 was a low A/high B and 6 was a low B/high C, with 5 being a C? But then not sure where a 4 fits in as a pass.

It is a mess and I am sure they could have made the exams harder without changing to numbers too.

parentinfo.org/article/the-new-gcse-grading-system-explained

Not quite. This link may help. The comparison chart was produced by the government to benchmark the grades. Top universities and employers are definitely treating 7 - 9 as A/A*. Most 6th forms expect 5 grade 4s and above for entry, usually with a minimum of grade 5 in your chosen A level subjects.

The bottom of 7 was explicitly set at the bottom of A. There is no ambiguity about high B creeping in there. There are lots of documents about it. The only blurring is that 8 isn’t A That boundary will float around, as stated by previous posters but the effect will be that it is slightly easier to get an 8 than an A. So all 8s isn’t quite as good as all A* but there isn’t any other way to interpret them. I agree that 9 takes the gilt off then. My ds’s History department has somewhat perversely opted to keep
That subject on abc (the last year it is possible) while all others have moved over (obv the GCSEs have to)

Add/Further Maths are still using the old alphabetical system as well.

The boundary for a 4 in her Edexcel GCSE Maths exam was 21% last year! a bit of an indicator that the content of the new maths exam is too hard. If pupils are scoring 97% in practice papers as mentioned up the thread they should probably be awarded an A level!