Should they build more isolation booths or just not use them altogether

[Fruitandveg1234]

A question as I know from previous experience from my son that isolation booths can all get full up and more booths are still needed so should they be banned or more built? Are schools over using them and what about Sen kids or overly strict teachers which remove children for perhaps no reason

Didn’t know they existed but can guess what they are. Some badly behaved stressed out children may benefit but how do they actually learn if isolated?

What alternative do you suggest?

Students are sent work to complete in individual cubicles so as not to interact with other poorly behaved students. It is a punishment, they have their break and lunch time in the dining hall at a separate time as everyone else but can talk to each other then. Isolation room is staffed by a member of senior leadership team who can support with work.

In my school there is a separate inclusion unit for more complex behavioural needs or students with SEN.

Schools cant exclude too many students, some behaviour would not warrant an exclusion but needs a serious sanction. For example if one student throws a glue stick across the room at another student I will send them to the isolation room, they could hurt the student (whose parents would want to know the incident had been dealt with) if they hit them and it is not acceptable behaviour. I teach a practical subject and if they cannot be trusted with stationery than they cant be trusted with equipment that could cause serious harm.

Off the top of my head, I wouldn't expect more than 1% of a school to be in isolation at any time, so in a school of 1000 that would mean 10.

If a school has spaces for 1-2% and is consistently full then they probably need to look at how they are using them.
Similarly if they have regular repeat offenders then maybe they need to find an alternative.

Fin It isn't so much 'how do they learn if isolated'. The point is that the rest of the class can get on and learn without the disruptive pupil in their lesson.

how do they actually learn if isolated?

Teachers should provide worksheets. The aim though is to stop them disrupting others' learning.

Ah, ok, I get it now. Think I was focussing more on the naughty child rather than the rest of the class.

I’m guessing there will be a variation in number of disruptive pupils, so some schools may need to isolate more than others.

I know tv probably isn’t accurate but the behaviour does seem poor.

My son’s school has two units. One is for mostly SEN pupils, he can be sent there if a teacher feels he needs to be, but mostly it’s used when the pupil themselves feel they need a break from the classroom (such as sensory overload). It’s absolutely not a punishment to be in there.

The other is used for students who are being seriously disruptive.

@singleandproud this isolation variant seems to be rather different than the one at my sons school. They have individual cubicles but no talking whatsoever is allowed and food ate in that room only. Teachers are meant to give work but do not always. I’ve heard isolation can be used for variety of reasons such as missed detentions , wrong uniform , hair , nails , lesson removal etc

I would think that the reason some schools isolate for uniform violations is to stop those violations spreading. If other pupils see Sandra wearing trainers not school shoes, or Dave with patterns cut into his hair, they will start to say 'well Sandra/Dave could so why can't I?'. i.e. it nips it in the bud.

Fruit Do you have a problem with how isolation is being used in your DS's school? Is your DS getting sent there? For what reasons?

I know that some schools following the Michaela model are very strict, but other than that, where would you put a disruptive pupil, and how would you deal with blatant uniform violations (apart from saying don't have a uniform / don't enforce rules)?

It sets a very worrying precedent if uniform violations are given the same severity as low level disruption or bullying.

They are children and its not the army. Also, do any schools ever consult children on uniform - it's just bizarre corporate drag to me and has NOTHING to do with attainment - by that logic I should have never got my PhD because I'd wear DMs rather than shoes...

I got put in isolation quite a bit during year 11. I got after school detentions for uniform (the school was really strict I wasn't a twat with it) but my mum had a newborn so it wasn't fair to get her to collect me. If you missed after school detention you had a day in isolation.
It was fine, there were booths and the year 10's and 11's got laptops to study for GCSEs. You had to look busy or you got a text book. You could order lunch in there. No talking allowed but some teachers would chat to us. I got more work done in isolation than I did in class and meant I could study for an entire day for upcoming exams. It was fine, if there was an important GCSE class we needed to go to they were okay about letting us out or letting us run to the lesson and grab the work we needed to do that day. I just don't really see the problem, obviously 15 year old me moaned about being in isolation as a group of us got dragged there after registration but it was fine.

My Ds's school have one room that they call the independent learning centre. That encompasses learning support but is also internal exclusion. Ds has some sen but has no behaviour problems, so does use learning support within this room. I do have some concerns that learning support and internal exclusion are in the same room.

Oh and the isolation room was not used for people who were bullying etc, they were just excluded. I got excluded for 3 days for using my phone in a lesson, seems bizarre and I did bugger all on my days off but I definitely kept my phone off for the rest of my lessons after that

In my experience, isolation is used to prevent exclusion, and of course so the rest of the students can actually learn in a decent environment. You can't include a seriously disruptive student in a class at the expense of everyone else, and the pastoral system will support the individual causing the difficulties in the appropriate way.

In the schools where I've taught, the teacher sends work to the isolation room for the student to do. The room has partitioned booths, and is supervised by a teacher. It's meant to be boring as a deterrent, but work is always provided so it's not a barrier to learning. The students are always encouraged to 'earn their way back' into the classroom.

In a world where schools are condemned for exclusions and alternative provision services are woefully under-funded, isolation works well as an option within a limited range of sanctions available to a school.

As for SEN students, having worked for years in a behaviour unit, I would say that the crossover between SEN and behaviour in some kids means it's often impossible to split the two (of course many SEN kids don't have these issues!). Its important to note that SEN can mean a range of things. If someone has dyslexia but punches someone in their class, they are an SEN student but still have to be sanctioned like everyone else IYSWIM? The only exception I can think of in this situation would be ASD type conditions, where acting-out behaviours can be triggered and need to be handled more sensitively. Although if there are violent incidents, of course they need to be sanctioned appropriately too. Most schools have an SEN unit where students can take themselves if they feel overwhelmed etc.

When isolation units are well managed within a system of sanctions, they are an effective tool. Do all schools use it as effectively as they could? Maybe, maybe not. Each school culture is different, and schools with a higher disruptive element/ more social issues would understandably need to use it more than a leafy school in a 'naice' area. In 'naice' schools it may well be that uniform violations are treated like this because their behaviour thresholds are lower, or sometimes in rural areas detentions are not possible because of transport, so isolation is used instead.

In my 17 years working in schools, I've never seen isolation used as some kind of prison where kids are kept for weeks with nothing to do. That's nonsense.

Not exactly a problem with it but I think their may be some things I don’t agree with but I don’t really want to get into that

My sons' school has 2 units, one is isolation for rule breaking or behaviour, the other is a support unit for children overwhelmed or with SEN.

There are 2 full time pastoral teachers per year, a head of year and a deputy head too assigned to that year group. They move up through the school with the year so there is continuity of care/understanding of relationships between pupils and their home lives.

It seems to work well. Isolation is a huge deterrent in classes according to my sons, there is an escalation procedure for behavioural issues in class meaning children in the classroom actually get taught.

It is an outstanding school with a great reputation for pastoral and behavioural control.

And yes it is strict on uniform. You know that before you apply to the school, they also have a strict dress code for staff. Some staff members wear a 3 piece suit or shirt, tie and waistcoat. Look very dapper. And are there to set an example.

We have a room with 10, an average day might see 4 being used. It's very rarely full.

I think there is around 7 booths in my sons school and a Sen unit but that isn’t really isolation it’s a place where kids with Sen are bake to access but mostly used for interventions etc

I remember getting sent to this multiple times for my school shoes having black glitter on them. My school also made some people sit their GCSEs (2010) in socks because they had the wrong shoes so I think OP is correct in that some schools are ridiculous and it’s nice to read that it looks much better in others.