Science - Foundation v Higher tier

[TeenTimesTwo]

I'm just looking ahead here, as DD is only y9 at the moment.

If a pupil is around the 4/5 grade, what needs to be considered when deciding whether to put them into the Foundation or the Higher tier for science and when is that decision usually made?

(I 'get it' for maths because of the more obviously levelled content. I also understand the grading system and the possibility of bombing out of the higher science.)

I taught MFL not science but I would always put a 4/5 grade student in for foundation. It's just easier to get the 5 in F and unless they have a realistic chance of 6 or above you're not losing anything.

May be different for science tjo. And as you say, it's early days. I wouldn't make the decision till start of Yr 11.

The guidance we've had from DS's school is that they only enter DC for the higher paper if they have clear data showing that they are capable of achieving at least a level 6 (in theory this is based on an average of all tests/exams since Year 9 however they also look at progress/consistency and are open to personal appeals). this is based on the believe it's easier to get a Level 5 on the foundation paper, if the DC is unlikely to achieve a higher score.

They would therefore enter 4/5 borderline DC for the foundation paper.

Decisions are made after Y11 mocks (which is the point where they stop teaching higher tier material to DC who aren't going to take the higher tier paper). Don't know if there is wiggle room beyond that date!

There is no national policy on this so best bet would be to ask the school about their policy and cut off dates etc. Some will make the decision late in y11 and others might make it after y10 summer mocks. Some schools I work with will even allow students to have input into which paper.

However unless there is any reason to NEED a 6 or above at GCSE I would say go for foundation. Science curriculum is tough on the new GCSE.

Thank you, that is helpful.

(The reason I am asking now is that in DD's set they are being allowed to choose whether to do their y9 exam on a Higher paper or a Foundation paper. She's been doing quite well on tests so far so we have said she should do the Higher, but I am concerned longer term whether she will cope when she needs to revise for other subjects too.)

Any more insights much appreciated.

So in terms of content, am I correct that there isn't a massive difference?

There is more content in higher tier, although DS's school teaches most (all?) of the syllabus to all DC regardless.
At least that's the case for DS' school's exam board, don't know if others vary

Assume this is combined science.
What's your dd like at Maths? One of the main differences between Foundation and Higher tier Science is that there is more Maths on the Higher paper.
The other difficulty is that for the 9-1 Sciences candidates have to take the same tier paper in all Science subjects. So you can't take Foundation Physics and Higher biology for example.
If it's AQA there are some guidelines for teachers about entering candidates for the correct tier. If they are being given a choice in your dd's set it sounds as if so far she must be being taught all the necessary content.
There is an OFQUAL article you may find helpful here schoolsweek.co.uk/ofqual-dont-enter-grade-four-pupils-for-higher-tier-gcse-papers/

It's Edexcel, and yes Combined Science. Her maths is a 'work in progress' at the moment . I think I'll know a lot more by this time in y10.
The problem at the moment is when she's had science tests she hasn't had other content heavy subjects to revise for at the same time, so we've been able to focus on the science. So she might be 'over achieving' in tests (currently doing better than 4-5s).
Thank you all, I need to 'park' this until next May I think.

The decision will be made in Year 11. If a pupil is on track for a 4/5 then foundation is the correct tier.

When the time comes I will be guided by the school.

But as they seem to have this 'what tier do you want to do' attitude for internal exams (DD1 had this too under the old GCSEs, even for mocks) I don't want to be pushing DD2 to be doing higher if she shouldn't be, but neither do I want to constrain her if she is capable. As I said, she's currently doing better than 4/5, but I fear(?) she is over achieving.

Teen

Hello my love, it's worrying isn't it.
As you know mine is Y10 and keeps reporting that they have suggested the higher paper for Maths and Science, and whilst she's exceeded her predictions she is still borderline and inconsistent.
I suppose at least we both know we are away from the 3's now.

I don't think I know DD is away from 3s as she is only in y9, but it is the 3s I want to avoid. With DD1 it seemed less of a concern as they could mix and match tiers, and also the revision guide indicated what was C/B content and what was A/A* so we knew what was most important.

I think I am scared of the unknown, and I know I need to chill for a year and see how things pan out. But I do feel better when I am more informed.

Inconsistency is a concern though. I think we probably both need to trust the teachers to know best.

If you look on the syllabus you can see what the lower and higher tier paper content is

I do think some science teachers have marked low for the first year of the new exams. Dd did hers last year, the first cohort. In her January mock she was one of the few who “passed” physics with Grade 4, predicted grade 6. Most of her friends failed.

Turned out the teacher got grade boundaries wildly wrong. Dd came out with a Grade 8 in the end. The friends who failed got 5/6’s

Turned out the teacher got grade boundaries wildly wrong to be fair to the teacher (which was me that tear too) they really had very little idea. Exam boards gave no guidance. We were guessing. At least they were conservative and everyone got a nice surprise in August 😁

I've been pondering some more.

It seems to me that in maths they teach all the sets as much as they can grasp, roughly but not exactly, teaching grade 3 stuff, then 4, then 5 then perhaps 6, and then at say Xmas y11 or so, they look at the borderline ones and say 'you're doing well - go for higher / you're borderline go for foundation'.

Whereas for science they are pretty much attempting to teach everything to the borderline sets, and then at some point around xmas y11 they will say 'you haven't understood the harder stuff and your maths is dodgy, do foundation, v you are doing OK do higher'.

So for Science borderline pupils will have at least seen the harder content, whereas in maths no one expects borderline pupils to have been taught the 7/8/9 content at all?