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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Can a grammer school place be withdrawn after a 6 weeks

41 replies

Sylow · 16/04/2019 06:18

My son got a place into a grammer school on the first of March, which we were all excited as he was going through emotional trauma after bullying during the preparation period for the 11 plus exam. Things begun to turn around when he got this offer as he got more than the total score, but missed few Mark's on English for the Kent test. He has even begun his preparations on how he is going to travel to the school as well as his shopping list. The schools admission pack came through last week so he has started writing down the time table in his diary. I have seen so many changes in him after the offer to a grammer school. He told me a couple of weeks ago that, he had his confidence back. Yesterday I received a letter from the LA that the school was offered in error. I dont know how I am going to break the News to him. The LA asked me not to tell him until they offer him a new place. I am shattered at the moment. I cant even look at my Son. How am I going to deal with this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sylow · 16/04/2019 06:21

I know it's going to be a disaster. Because he is still to terms with why he didn't get his first choice with his friends.😭

OP posts:
TheChineseChicken · 16/04/2019 06:26

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about this but just want to say I feel sick on your son's behalf. How awful Sad

TranquilityofSolitude · 16/04/2019 06:33

I'm sure I have read here that a place can't just be withdrawn once some time has elapsed. Don't give up OP - if you don't get answers on this thread ask some of the admissions experts (admission, prh47bridge etc). I hope one of them will be along in a minute.

brizzlemint · 16/04/2019 06:37

I don't know anything about it either but I hope you get the advice you need, surely you must have grounds for an appeal?

Iputthescrewinthetuna · 16/04/2019 06:39

Wow! I would fight for that place so much! I don't know if that would change things though!
Poor you! Poor son! It is lovely that he is doing all this prep work! I wouldn't know how to tell him! ThanksThanks

Theworldisfullofgs · 16/04/2019 06:47

I believe there are very limited circumstances within which they can withdraw an offer.
There are some real experts on here and hopefully they'll be along soon. Thry are brilliant and incredibly generous with their time.

FallenSky · 16/04/2019 06:58

I'm not an expert by any means but I was under the impression that an offer could only be withdrawn within a certain period of time. Say a few days at most? I'd certainly think that 6 weeks is way too long to realise the error, especially as you have the admissions pack and had no reason to believe your DD wasn't going there. Do you know what the error was? Can you appeal?

Original poster
Sylow · 16/04/2019 07:14

Thanks everyone. I am going to start today as I revieved the letter yesterday evening. I have been told I can also get a letter from the MP which might help. I am going to fight to the last minute as feel my son cannot deal with this. Will keep you posted. Any advice will help. Thank you all

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namechangedyetagain · 16/04/2019 07:24

Do you know on what basis they've withdrawn the offer? Did they give any explanation? Second getting advice from the experts @admission, @prh47bridge.

Hope you get it sorted for your son.

avocadochocolate · 16/04/2019 07:28

According to this, there are only very limited circumstances in which you are allowed to withdraw a place once it has been accepted.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/school-admissions/

Might be time to contact a lawyer. Did you have legal insurance as part of your household insurance?

Can a grammer school place be withdrawn after a 6 weeks
Lenazayka · 16/04/2019 08:10

OMG 😲 I cannot imagine your feelings.
Please, don’t give up. Your child definitely deserves this place.

prh47bridge · 16/04/2019 08:34

There are only three grounds on which an offer can be withdrawn. One of those is that a mistake has been made and the place was offered in error. Precedents from cases that went to the courts and the Local Government Ombudsman established that admission authorities only have 3 days to withdraw an offer made in error. However, many admission authorities take the view that changes in the Admissions Code mean that these precedents no longer apply. I am of the view that they do but there are no new precedents to confirm this.

I would, nonetheless, argue that withdrawing a place 6 weeks after it has been offered is unreasonable. Your first avenue should be to make this argument to the LA. However, if they refuse to reinstate the offer, you will have to appeal. Your argument would be:

  • it is unreasonable to withdraw the place after such a long delay
  • the delay has disadvantaged you as you have bought uniform (if this is true) which will now be wasted and no-one is going to compensate you for this
  • it is unlikely that they will now be able to put your son in the position that he would have been in had there been no mistake, so he has been disadvantaged by the delay
  • the delay means that you have been unable to lodge appeals for any preferred schools before the deadline. This means that your appeals for this school and any other school for which you appeal are likely to be heard after the main round of appeals. This further disadvantages your son as your chances of success are reduced due to previous successful appeals

I would hope that an appeal panel would see sense and reinstate your son's place.

Having said all that, I find it odd that the LA has asked you not to tell your son until they have made a new offer. I wonder why?

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 16/04/2019 09:42

As well as the advice here, it is worth looking at www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=35 there is specialist advice there on appeals for grammar schools, there is a kent section and an appeals section.

If he didn't pass on English then it does sound as if there was an error in offering him the place, however six weeks is a long time to wait to notice it - maybe it was as part of other appeals that it came to light. Do you have evidence from the school to show that his English is generally good and the 11 plus was an exception? Do you have evidence of the bullying around the time of the eleven plus? Depending on the school and spaces grammar schools do admit children who missed out by a few marks and often such children do very well. I would definitely fight the decision.

SouthWestmom · 16/04/2019 09:50

I didn't think Kent had English? My son got NVR, VR and Maths scores. Do they look at English as well?

I'm really surprised they have contacted you so late, that's crazy.

admission · 16/04/2019 12:41

I agree with PRH that the first course of action is a strongly worded email to the LA saying that this is totally unacceptable and that you will be going to appeal and then if necessary to the School Ombudsman. I would indicate in the email that you are aware of previous precedent cases that indicate that 6 weeks is far to long a period for the offer to now be withdrawn.
The LA will always be nervous about these kind of appeals that could generate a lot of publicity, so it is worth making a strong set of comments now in the hope that somebody in the LA recognises that this could get "messy" for both the LA and school involved and the easy option is to re-offer the place. The problem is that when these kind of issues arise, it is frequently not one individual but a lot of individuals which makes the problem far more difficult to resolve.
I do feel for your child because they will be a really difficult position and I think you need to think carefully whether now is the right time to tell him or not.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 16/04/2019 13:15

When you got the results of the 11 plus in October did it say that he had been considered suitable for high school or grammar school? If it said grammar school then you could argue that the expectation of a grammar school place dates back to October. If it said high school then it would be more apparent on 1 March that there was an error. Presumably you would have applied anyway with the hope of appealing.

Although it shouldn't matter how far short he fell in English on the 11 plus, if you can show it wasn't by much it might be easier to appeal. As they are standardised scores they cluster around 100, so if he got 106 instead of 107 then he would be close to the pass mark. If he got 103 though, there will be a lot of students between 103 and 107. I would go with admissions advice to challenge them initially, but if that fails then appeal.

prh47bridge · 16/04/2019 14:26

If it said grammar school then you could argue that the expectation of a grammar school place dates back to October

I'm afraid that wouldn't help. Having an expectation of a grammar school place is not the same as having an expectation of a place at a specific grammar school. And, in any case, it is not necessarily the case that everyone considered suitable for grammar school will get a grammar school place.

peppaminttea · 16/04/2019 15:12

I'm in two minds about this.

Assuming your child was assessed as suitable for high school as a result of the Kent Test there is no way that you didn't know an error had been made in allocation of places in March. All the literature given by KCC and the online application system makes it very clear that if you are not assessed as suitable for grammar then you will not be offered a grammar on allocation day (but you may put a grammar as a choice to then appeal). There is appears you probably just kept quiet despite there being an obvious error in the hope that no one would notice.

That said I feel really sorry for your child who would understandably be distraught. Knowing KCC you are very likely to have to play hardball with them to get them to reverse that descision. Like PP have said you have now been disadvantaged by not being able to appeal in the normal round of appeals, which in many parts of the county, may well have been successful (depending on the grammar) if your son missed by only a few marks. And for that reason, I wish you luck.

PotterHead1985 · 16/04/2019 16:30

I can be of no help whatsoever as I don't understand the 11+ at all. I just went to secondary. No test or nothing (granted it was 1997) in Ireland.

However I would hope that given their 'error' was not noticed sooner, you have started planning, preparing and purchasing and your son is so excited, that he can still go to this school.

Original poster
Sylow · 16/04/2019 20:25

I applied for the schools with the intention to appeal if they refuse and the gave him the place. I did not know there was an error because that school is always undersubcribed so I thought they offered him this school due to this reason. If I knew it was an error I wouldn't have built his hopes high knowing how fragile he was after bullying. But thanks anyway

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Original poster
Sylow · 16/04/2019 20:31

He got 119 in maths, 119 in VR and 99 in English. His school and I, appealed a couple of weeks ago to his first choice as his school believes his result was due to the circumstances that time

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Original poster
Sylow · 16/04/2019 20:31

My problem is why wait till 6 weeks.

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Middleoftheroad · 17/04/2019 10:08

Some of the more regular posters may recall in 2017 that my son's comprehensive place was withdrawn in the June before starting secondary school, on the eve of his induction, after more than three months since offers day.

Although this was a comp place, I had previously been to a grammar school appeal for him (and he now goes to a different grammar) so I understand the angst and uncertainty you must be feeling.

We won our appeal for the comp, with the support of many good people on here and the 11+ Forum. Our circumstances were different though as there was never a good reason given why the place was withdrawn!

He started at the comp but was then offered a grammar school place, which he took.

I understand what you must be going through.
For months my son believed he was attending a certain school. He has a twin who had already secured a place at grammar, which made it worse.

If I can help, please message me. Just wanted to come on to offer my understanding Flowers

Middleoftheroad · 17/04/2019 10:22

Prior to my appeal for the comp I threw EVERYTHING at this, MP involvement, contacting governors, CEO of the LA, legal precedents (if withdrawing a place after 3 days was deemed unacceptable then surely 3 months was obscene?)
Nothing could halt the appeal though (which had to be put together as an 'emergency' appeal within a week).

The hardest part was watching my son practice his route to school, prepare for an induction that was withdrawn the evening before and wear his 'new' uniform, while watching his twin go off to his induction.
We never told my son (I had to say his induction was cancelled - luckily? this was a school where he didn't know anyone). We never told him that at one point he didn't have a school place.

At the appeal the panel could clearly see the impact this had had. Likewise though they couldn't explain why or how the 'error' had occurred.

I'm still affected by what we went through (at the time I had to take time off work to put my emergency appeal together and because it's exhausting) but my advice would be to battle on.

Good luck.

NancyJoan · 17/04/2019 10:27

Oh, OP. How awful. I don’t even know where you begin to deal with this.

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