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Original poster

Crash in Maths degree applications following new Maths GCSE and A-level

32 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/04/2019 09:43

Current Y13 are the first cohort to have sat the reformed maths GCSE and reformed maths A-level.

And there has been an unexpected dip in the number of applications for maths degrees. Some of this can be explained by a dip in cohort numbers, but not all.

I personally hate the new maths A-level. The papers are a really long slog and where students previously got 50% of their marks answering easier AS questions, now the majority of the questions are pretty hard.

I’ve seen suggestions on twitter that the new A-level won’t last long. Hopefully not, and hopefully these figures will hasten that.

twitter.com/slsingh/status/1116978758966239232?s=21

OP posts:
Saucery · 13/04/2019 09:48

Eek, DS wants to do Maths and Further Maths A level in Sept. I expect his teachers have informed him how intensive they are. They certainly did for FM as I was there.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/04/2019 09:52

I think the grade boundaries will be on the floor so grades will be preserved, but the whole experience is just less pleasant, and for no benefit that I can see.

OP posts:
PostNotInHaste · 13/04/2019 09:55

Oooo, DS also looking at Maths and Further Maths A levels but still only year 10.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/04/2019 10:07

Having had a look at the data, there’s a general drop across the UK, worst in Wales, new GCSE and A-levels are England only.

Wonder if kids who would have taken maths are being encouraged into engineering/comp sci/accounting or more vocational pathways?

OP posts:
TheFirstOHN · 13/04/2019 10:10

I think things are harder for that first year group (current Y13) as they were the first to do the new specifications.

Perhaps the numbers might level out over the next couple of years?

DS2 is in the year below, doing Maths and F.Maths. He is enjoying Maths A-level so far (has nearly completed the syllabus).

There are several pupils in his set who would be capable of applying to study Maths, but most seem to be looking at related subjects: Physics, Computer Science etc. It would be interesting to see whether the number of applicants to other STEM subjects has fallen or not.

TheFirstOHN · 13/04/2019 10:11

Sorry, I took so long to type my last comment (went to check with DS2 what his classmates were planning to study) that it cross-posted with noblegiraffe 's last comment.

Piggywaspushed · 13/04/2019 10:31

The new English Lit GCSE has had the same effect. Totally counter to what Gove says he intended.

TheFirstOHN · 13/04/2019 10:34

Also, don't forget that 2001-2002 was the bottom of the dip in birth rate.

Comefromaway · 13/04/2019 10:40

Dd was in the second cohort to take the new maths gcse & first for the science and although she ended up with Grade 8’s in maths, physics & chemistry she was convinced from sample papers etc that the most she’d get was a Grade 6 (most of her class “failed” physics January mock, she got a 4) and this definitely affected A Level choices amongst her cohort.

Comefromaway · 13/04/2019 10:44

The failed in inverted commas was to reflect the fact no one had a scooby about grade boundaries at that point.

Her English/humanities grade predictions/mocks on the other hand were pretty spot on. 7/8 in mock, predicted 8/9 got 8 9 in English.

Hellohah · 13/04/2019 10:46

I'm sure I saw on here a while back that to get a grade 9 in gcse maths you only had to get about 75% or something.
I guess being the select top 2% or whatever in the country and still not knowing 25% is a lot, and many might think too big a gap to continue studying.

titchy · 13/04/2019 11:47

I think the grade boundaries will be on the floor so grades will be preserved,

That's awful. brilliant for ds though who just might stand a chance of getting the B he needs

Oratory1 · 13/04/2019 11:50

Same here, we were worried that DS (current year 12) wouldn’t get high enough grades to do his favoured maths and physics A levels but he ended up with 9 s. He is enjoying maths A level but as a dyslexic he s used to struggling with material and being in the bottom half of the class so not as phased as some might be by newer harder papers

Fifthtimelucky · 13/04/2019 15:17

I do think it's right in principle that an A level grade reflects someone's ability to answer A level questions, not easier AS level questions.

Surely someone who is considering a maths degree, ought to be good enough at maths to be able to answer questions that are A level standard? If people are being put off maths degrees, it's presumably the weaker candidates, who realise that if they cannot comfortably do A level questions they will struggle with a degree. That may not be a bad thing.

I'm not familiar with the new maths A level though. My older daughter took the old one.

Comefromaway · 13/04/2019 15:22

But what do you call A Level standard?

The paper should in my opinion cater for the entire ability range from A* to E.

titchy · 13/04/2019 16:31

If it's the people who would otherwise be getting the Ds and Es being put off that would not seem to be too big a problem - however it almost certainly will be skewed so perfectly capable mathematicians are being put off because of confidence and lack of guidance. So girls, state school kids and those from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

Fifthtimelucky · 13/04/2019 17:31

I agree that the paper should cater for the full range of ability from A*-E. But I wouldn't be expecting those at the bottom of that range to be considering a maths degree.

I take titchy's point though.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 13/04/2019 18:05

Would people who get Ds and Es be accepted into Maths degrees? I wouldn’t have thought so?

The new A-levels weren’t supposed to be harder. Given that AS-levels have practically been binned, if A-level is perceived to be harder, people won’t take it. People who would have taken AS then don’t do maths post-16 and the country is worse off. Core maths isn’t widespread enough to take the slack.

A-level didn’t need to be made harder either (there was an argument for GCSE). Kids who are going onto mathsy degrees who need challenging are adequately catered for with further maths.

OP posts:
Boyskeepswinging · 13/04/2019 18:12

The new A-levels weren’t supposed to be harder
Weren't they? I thought there was concern about a rising number of higher grades for A levels in the same way there was for GCSEs. I though that was why A levels went back to being linear as it was felt (ie Gove felt) it was a more academically rigorous system than the previous AS/A level system?

Piggywaspushed · 13/04/2019 18:17

I don't think you're wrong about Gove boys but the disappearance of AS had more to do (I thought) with reducing exam overload for students.

Piggywaspushed · 13/04/2019 18:18

There was definitely a huge rhetoric in some subjects about 'tougher' A Levels. Maths, not so much.

Boyskeepswinging · 13/04/2019 18:24

Personally I was sad to see the demise of AS levels. It seems like a huge jump from GCSE to A level now (as it was in my day, too, but I'm not saying that was a good thing!). Interesting that Maths was always considered to be a "hard" A level and as noble said there was always FM for the most able students. Don't get why not having AS levels reduces exam stress as now kids are stressed out of their heads as everything rests on one set of exams? Then again why am I trying to see any logic in Gove's thinking?

Really interested to read that noble has seen rumours that there may be more changes to come.

MillicentMartha · 13/04/2019 18:39

That’s interesting. DS3 is intending to take maths at university. He’s quite good and is enjoying the A level courses in maths and FM but he’s found the AS papers (mocks) much harder than any other past papers which must be from the previous syllabus. He is hoping for A* A next year but might get AB so I’m hoping a drop in applications might mean aspirational applications may be successful. Every cloud...

Piggywaspushed · 13/04/2019 18:40

I don't think it was about stress ; more about the actual volume of exams . Not sure that bit was Gove, to be honest.

My DS started doing Core Maths and probably would have done well noble but he swapped to a different school after a week and his current school doesn't offer it. Shame.

MillicentMartha · 13/04/2019 18:42

Getting rid of AS levels has just put much more pressure on the Y13 exams. Not at all to do with reducing overload, more to make A levels harder because the whole 2 years is examined in one go. Back to the old days as Michael Gove wanted.