Should sex education be sex positive?

[Sophestry]

As the Department of Education is looking to change the sex education guidelines to be more inclusive of LGBTQ+ people and to make menstrual education compulsory, I'm interested in what you guys think about sex education and how much it should cover. Should things like masturbation and sexual pleasure (particularly female sexual pleasure) be covered? Do schools put enough emphasis on consent? Would you feel comfortable if your kids were taught about the realities of porn?

Inspired by this: www.mymorningafter.co.uk/blog1/2019/3/29/should-sex-education-be-sex-positive-interview-with-becky-lund-harket-from-sexplain

Sex positivse sounds a bit unfair on those who are asexual (apparently more people are that than are gay!)

I hate the phrase "sex positive" as it's been hijacked by special interest groups like the pimp lobby to be synonymous with "anything goes in pursuit of male pleasure". And it's a bloody insult to the rest of us, suggesting that we are either somehow "sex negative" (how do these people think we have sex - in the dark, with our flannel nighties hiked round our waists?) or, as Xenia just pointed out, under some obligation to be interested in sex. Anyway, end of rant.

That aside, I do see where you're coming from. Girls need a lot of reinforcing of the idea that the only situation in which you should consider having sex is when you really, really want to and think it will bring you pleasure. Not because you feel obliged to, coerced to, or forced to. Not because you think "he won't love me anymore if I don't". Not because "everyone's doing it." Not because "he has needs and he'll go elsewhere if I don't", or "he has needs and his poor delicate little blue balls will explode if I don't service him..."

Because both partners really want to (and feel they're in a situation where it will be mutually pleasurable, they've got the practical consequences covered, and they feel like they can handle the emotional situation). That's the only sufficient reason to have sex.

Also consent - yes to much more teaching about consent. And debunking myths round consent (particularly presumed consent - no such thing; drunken consent - highly dangerous, you can't always accurately judge the point at which the other person has gone beyond being able to consent, especially if you've been drinking too; consent in relationships - not ongoing, still need it every time).

And also to the idea that "consent is way too low a bar - you're looking for active, mutual, enjoyable participation."

I think the idea is good but the wording is bad.

In my option the focus should be about consent and confidence. Have sex when you know what you are doing, because YOU want to do it, not because someone tells you. Don’t be afraid to ask your partner or tell if yiu don’t like something.

Tha should always go both ways but I think girls need more confidence in saying the word NO.

I think teaching about consent- and especially with a focus on empowering girls, but also reminding boys not to put pressure on girls and that coerced consent is not consent- is really important.

I think there may even be a place for some of what might be considered sex positive sex education e.g. using lubrication, if it doesn't feel good/hurts that's not normal. Also maybe how to have mature and healthy conversations about sex and what you enjoy and what you don't.

However, personally, as a trainee teacher who has taught contraception and fertility during biology lessons, I wouldn't feel comfortable explicitly discussing sexual pleasure with teens- and I don't think they would feel comfortable with it either! (all my year 10s could correctly label male and female reproductive organs by the end of the lessons, but this potentially isn't as easy as the post makes it sound!)

I think what would be great is ensuring all teachers get some proper training on how to deliver PSHE and Sex Ed- this might make them feel more comfortable having these kinds of discussions. Without the training, I think many teachers won't feel comfortable having these kinds of discussions, and there's too much potential for things to go wrong.

I'm also really, really sure that a lot of teens wouldn't feel comfortable having these kinds of conversations with e.g. their form tutor, and that in itself is a problem when you are emphasizing consent.

Pleasure in sex should be emphasised.

Girls should expect to enjoy sex, and have sex because they want to. Anything they don't actively enjoy they should stop.

There is also a huge amount of pressure on boys to be very interested in sex, to be somewhat aggressive, and to be attracted by some very violent and ugly imagery.

Boys who are put off by this, and boys who don't fit the stereotype, can end up thinking there is something wrong with them, or something disgusting about sex.

I think 'sex positive' is a wishy-washy term and ignores the people can and do feel many emotions - including sad and guilt and disinterest and other not really open positive emotions - about sex and sexual acts and that's entirely normal. Sex is complicated and has consequences, positive and negative. Just being positive or nonjudgemental about it isn't going to automatically lead to healthy conversation or ideas - the language of sex positivity is easily used to pressure people into being more 'open' to sex they're not interested in.

There was an article a few years ago on how teaching refusal - giving and accepting - is a vital part of consent education and the issues with ignoring that as it is so often overlooked. With what is going on in schools with child-on-child abuse on the rise and wide reporting of girls feeling coerced into these things, we need better than the low bar of consent. We need to discuss sex as something we do WITH someone, not to or for them, and a lot more.

I've had discussions about porn with my 12 and 14-year-old. I read some time ago that the average age of first exposure to porn is around 11 and declining and we've already had issues with local boys using porn phrases and ideas as threats towards girls at the park. They weren't particularly comfortable conversations for anyone, but I think they were needed. It was at the tail-end of our sex-ed lessons (until this year all my kids were home educated so it was all on their father and me and I'll likely do it with my younger two whether or not they go to school later as I think this is very important), and yeah, we covered sexual pleasure and masturbation (including the history of and myths around vibrators), along with many other things like dealing with crushes and signs of abuse in relationships, issues like yeast infections, vaginismus, tight foreskins, we discussed arousal incongruence and myths around hymens, vaginal tightness and 'blue balls' and the science around all of them. We discussed different kinds of sex and the benefits and risks of each, different stis and types of protection including gloves which get left out a lot, we discussed the laws around sex and images. We also watched videos of women discussing their experiences of difficult pregnancies and experiences of the postnatal period. We discussed and read about experiences of abortions, miscarriages, and stillbirths. They along with my 9 year old have discussed anatomy up to including the parts of the clitoris and testes and breasts. They've also done the menstrual cycle including the different phases and how it's likely to affect them, myths and stigma about it from around the world, and signs to watch out for conditions and common medications for those issues. We also have a book that has many stories of women's first periods. I could go on, I had several pages of links and resources when we did this, it took several uncomfortable weeks, but it gave both my child who never asks any questions and the one who asks all of them the information and language they didn't have before to discuss things they hadn't before. We had so many very awkward but amazing discussions while doing this and since then around these topics, it was so worthwhile even if didn't always feel like it at the time.

Personally, I think body and social education should be a priority and education around sex has both. For me, what to cover is all of it and teacher's should be well supported in doing so. By all of it, I'm including things like the issues with coersion in acts like anal sex, how very few women statistically enjoy being on the receiving end of that, even fewer mixed sex couples do it regularly, and the greater risks of bleeding, infection, and STIs. Some of that may appear judgemental, I've certainly heard discussions on how people who talk about disliking anal sex or even things like not wanting long nails on a sexual partner is judgemental, but I think kids deserve to know their bodies and what to expect and part of that is knowing the risks and knowing the emotions they have around it are probably shared with more people than they think. To me, that's far more good and leads to more healthy awkward discussions than any amount of trying to be just positive and nonjudgemental about the topic is going to be. I honestly don't think you can or should, boundaries and honesty are important and a vital part of this.

FuzzyShadowChatter that's so good! I think a lot of misunderstandings and lack of sexual confidence (i.e. feeling comfortable talking about sex, contraception, consent etc. with your partner) comes from parents acting like sex is a really embarrassing thing that they don't want to discuss. I imagine it's quite awkward talking about it with your children, but it's so important that they learn that sex is something they can talk about and how there is so much more to it than p in v. Awesome comment :D

I am completely open to talking to my kids about sex. But my DS who considers himself asexual at this point is baffled by his 11 and 12 year olds are so obsessed. And of course because he's not interested they call him gay. If only schools would teach both girls and boys don't need to be pressured, don't need to watch porn if they don't want to etc maybe those kids may feel more comfortable in their own skin and explore their sexuality at their own pace.