Public schools and the future. At what point does it stop being worth it?

[Teacher18]

Been thinking a lot about secondary schools for my sons recently. My husband and I both went to public school and boarded and my daughter finished at her boarding school last summer and is now at uni.

We’ve always taken for granted that our two sons would also go to my DH old school but recently we’ve started to think more seriously about it. By the time they start we’ve worked out with annual increases it will be about £50k a year for one, rising each year. So basically well over £500k to get both through. Financially we.can do it but not comfortably. We’re far from super wealthy. Is any education worth that amount of money? The days are gone when fees were a reasonable proportion of a decent salary (I think my fees were about £15-20k a year and are double that today, the grandparents paying are also nearly gone so what demographic is going to be at the schools?

I know many are already taking higher numbers of foreign rich kids and whilst I think being at school with people from different cultures is healthy I’m not sure I want them to be in the minority.

Has anyone had the same thoughts or anyone currently paying public school fees have a mental cap of what they would be willing to pay?

I think the key thing to remember is that if you are going to pay, make sure you pick a good one. There are so many crap private schools out there!

Asking the parents isn't super helpful as once they've paid, it's in their interests to say the school is brilliant, even if it isn't. State school parents are, obviously, far more honest about their DC's schools!

Personally I would only pay for a top tier school, one of the big names, as otherwise what's the point. Though again, if your local State options are rubbish, you might think a second-rate private school is the least worst option.

First of all, being a pedant I'm going to point out that genuine 'public schools' are small in number. Charterhouse, Winchester, Eton, Rugby, Harrow, Shrewsbury,Westminster and some add Uppingham. The others are 'independent' schools. The whole reason the actual public schools were called public schools is historic and relating to them being schools set up to be independent from crown, church or state. All the hundreds of private schools that exist now are NOT public schools.

Anyway OP, stop looking at expensive boarding schools if £50k is s stretch and look at one of the many excellent day schools no doubt near you. Less than half the price you have mentioned.

"Asking the parents isn't super helpful as once they've paid, it's in their interests to say the school is brilliant, even if it isn't."
IME all school will have a few parens who are unhappy and are only too keen to tell you why!

I'd want to know exactly what the return would be. I suspect lots of social networking and decent results. But round us the cost of that is £20k year for top private or free if state

toucantoo, not to be pedantic to a pedant, but your list is not exactly correct. The Clarenden Commission investigated Charterhouse, Eton, Harrow, Rugby, Shrewsbury, Westminster, Winchester, St Paul's and Merchant Taylor. The latter 2 were not regulated by the later Public Schools Act because their constitutions were not able to be changed by public legislation.

If you really wanted to be pedantic, then you need to use the definition used to define public schools back in 1868 to today's schools as it was the definition which made them public schools, not the date of their founding or their reputations.

So girls are mostly barred from these schools! Going back in time isn’t always helpful!

Most parents you meet at independent school sing the praises of the school to anyone thinking of going there. They are paying money and don’t want to appear they are wasying it! Or that they have made a bum choice! Of course there are negative parents but new parents are never going to meet them until it’s too late!

I think girls were “barred” because this was a sign of the times an indication on the then current thoughts on education for girls. Times have of course changed 3 are now coed the rest will I suspect will remain firmly SS.

My DS is now at Uni after 10 years at prep and then senior school, having boarded for all of that time.

Based on my experience, I would say look at your DC carefully and see how independent, academic and self motivated they are. DS was very independent, bright but not especially academic, and only motivated by things that interested him. His tutor and the teaching staff at his school were superb at mentoring him and making sure that he played to his strengths (sport, CCF, music & certain subjects), and coached him through his weaknesses - lack of concentration, lateness, chronic untidiness and complete disinterest in some subjects, and ultimately gave him a strong sense of who he was.

I think if you're blessed with a child who just loves studying and gets on with it, then there's many many state schools that will deliver a first class education enabling them to go on to top universities. If however your DS need plenty of sport to soak up the excess energy, and need extra tuition and attention to get them through the academics, then because of the cuts in the state education sector you will more easily find this level of support and activities in private schools.

And if your options start to narrow down towards the private schools, then only, and I mean only, go for a boarding school if it really does do boarding. Otherwise you pay the boarding fees and your DC are home every weekend "because there's nothing going on".

Bubbles, God no! I was just pointing out that nitpicking about the term public school for a school is a silly exercise. The original term is so outdated and people today use it as a shortcut for well-known, elite (social and/or academic) private school with several centuries of alumnae which people today will recognise. Who really cares if a schools is "really" a public school or "just" and independent one?

Currently, public schools are the ones that are part of the HMC.

We live rurally and due to the lack of professional jobs in the area the school standards are poor (most parents not focussed on education) . Below national average on all fronts. Most schools undersubscribed and struggling for funding. Council refuses to bite the bullet and close any schools so they are all in limp along mode.
Wealthy farming families send their children to the local prep school but that is not particularly academic and focuses on boarding senior schools which we are not interested in.
So We Have Opted For A Day school. The school is 1 hour from home so the compromise is small children travelling long distances on minibuses. It's not ideal. Fees are 12 to 15k per year.
We also happen to have near us an international senior school which is in top 20 A level results and only costs 15k per year.
Perhaps you need to consider more options than the 50k per year choice?

Are they LA schools? Most parents don’t support school closures because they like a local school. They don’t like poor schools either but often the less educated the parents are, the less fuss they make about poor schools. They don’t have any other options either but, as the movers and shakers move their DC out, these schools don’t have the drive of professional parents on the GB or in the parent body. Sad but true - if you look at the geographic location of under performing schools.

It's all true bubblesbuddy. I did join GB but the rest were apathetic do there was no challenge on school performance. We have no music teacher, no art teacher, no sports teams, poor after school clubs - just kids on tablets .
Most of the parents around here are lazy / not interested do would not support school closures prefering proximity to quality. Council has burnt their fingers in the past and now letting the schools resolve it themselves...

Sorry before I offend anyone I don't mean lazy, lazy I mean lazy about education i.e. they don't value it.

I really agree with MullofKintire. My 2 older DC both got into top high achieving private day schools in London with academic/music scholarships, but equally got into very good state options. We chose state for a variety of reasons, not just financial and it was a great decision for them. They are flying academically and mix with a diverse great group of kids who do come from educationally aspirational families who are supportive. They have had the chance to do a lot of extracurricular and other than the school ski trip which was canceled for me DD Secondary school, they have had loads of trips. More than my their privately educated friends. So far so good. Living in London it is easy to access opportunities for kids outside of school if needed. I get that that can be harder in other places. It depends on your options. But, I wouldn't send my kids out to board. There is still a lot of parenting that needs to happen during adolescence, and to farm that out is not a wise decision for a child IMO. They will be gone before you know it. Why would you send them off at 11 or 13 when they will most likely be gone by 18 if they are doing well. 11/13 is still very young. And my friends who boarded as teens and children always talk about how sad it made them, many suffered depression at uni or have strained relationships with their parents. Yes the facilities are usually amazing, but bricks and mortar isn't the same as the love and support a family environment can provide.

But, I wouldn't send my kids out to board. There is still a lot of parenting that needs to happen during adolescence, and to farm that out is not a wise decision for a child IMO.

You do understand, don’t you, that boarding children are home virtually all the time? They don’t disappear for a term at a time. They continue to take part in family life and receive just as much parental support and interaction as any child with working parents. Possibly more if the day school parents are busy or exhausted or away during the week.

And really, it is pointless to base an argument against boarding on the availability for you of excellent state options. These are not available to everyone.

Finally (boring myself now) unless you are no more than 20 yourself Notenoughsleepmumof3 the boarding schools of today would be unrecognisable to your friends. So their experience is not relevant to decisions being made now.

I have a child who board's and three who don't and I would say that I spend far more quality time with the boarder. If you haven't personally experienced it is hard to grasp, I understand that.

I have plenty of criticism from family members who enjoy unpicking every aspect of Ds1 as 'it's because he boards'.. Luckily we all know DS personality hasn't changed in any way and we are a very close family.

I agree that if I was in London I would have probably been able to avoid boarding as I would have had more choices for DS - but thsts only speculation on my part. Is it worth it? That's a hard question to answer as every child is so different and most of if it's trial and error. Fwiw I feel we, as many other families, do their best with what they have available.

I'm much more than 20 and I didn't mean to hit a nerve. I get that sometimes boarding is the best option if you are in a rural area or have jobs that mean you are hardly home. I know you say boarders are home all the time, but it isn't the same as having daily interaction with your kids and being physically there for the small things or the big things. I'm sorry, but it isn't.

I have 4 children - the oldest two went to an academically selective independent London day school, third child is extremely bright and goes to a SS grammar school (no tuition, also gained scholarships but wanted grammar school). Fourth child about to start local state school.

Over the years I have come to realise that success is much more down to individual drive than anything else. I think parents like to feel that a private education is a passport to every success in life but that simply isn't true.

When I look back at the many cohorts of children I've known, there have a wide variety of outcomes, personal and academic, and it doesn't appear to depend upon the price tag attached to the education. I would say that private education is no guarantee of academic success every time and the most academically successful child I know personally was state educated (but bright, very determined and suddenly became very driven at A' Level).

We can comfortably afford school fees but, bar one school that DS did not gain a place at, didn't feel that the other independent schools we were considering fitted our requirements or really warranted the £20K of tax paid income that was demanded. That sum of money can be used to support and educate in numerous ways.

So we shall see. I have no doubt that my youngest child will achieve similarly to his older siblings (RG degrees, Masters etc.). It's just that it will come without a hefty price tag. That money can be used to benefit him in other ways.

One other thing I have noticed is that a private education does not necessarily ease their path to university or once in the workplace in the way it once did. In fact, I would go so far as to say it can be a hindrance. Elite universities are under pressure to seek a more diverse cohort and in the world of work (except possibly law and politics) it really doesn't count for much. We always used to say that we were paying for them to have a nice time and I think that much was true.

Boarding schools, I have no knowledge of. I asked youngest child if he would like to go to boarding school but he was horrified so I left it at that. If he had been interested, I would have considered it as I think for the right child it can be a wonderful experience.

Mmm ... But who’s to say that your criteria for satisfactory family life are exactly the same as anyone else’s?

I honestly doubt that a single boarding parent is going to regret their decision, or remove their child from their school, purely because you express a contrary opinion.

Sorry - was responding to Notenoughsleepmumof3!

'Asking the parents isn't super helpful as once they've paid, it's in their interests to say the school is brilliant, even if it isn't. State school parents are, obviously, far more honest about their DC's schools!'

I would agree with this to a degree. I have noticed that parents often become cult followers, often very keen to regale all the wonderful advantages. However, I've come to realise it's often just a way of justifying the cost.

@Travelban - I understand completely what you mean. I think my oldest child would have thrived at boarding school and I can see that we would have had a similar amount of quality family time.

As it was he went to a day school, gone by 7am and often not home until 6-7pm due to all the sports he played and a myriad of other extra-curricular activities. After eating dinner and homework, there's not a great deal of time, especially with two working parents and three younger siblings. He was and still is hugely active and independent and I think he would have loved boarding school and we would have made the most of time at home.

If I was in your position I'd look at outstanding and good state schools locally and consider moving into the catchment area if there's one that's a really good fit for your DC. With the money saved there's the opportunity to pay for activities and holidays, and possibly to help out financially when they leave university.

@popupippa that's exactly how it is in our house. Out by 7am, back at 6/7, one of us is often travelling for work and the other is juggling kids, dinner, housework and taking the youngest swimming whilst the older ones fend for themselves!!!