Appealing as given a C of E school but we are Catholic

[gogogadgetlegs1974]

Hi everyone,
I'm wondering whether anyone has any useful info as to whether we would be successful at appeal. We are Cathoilc and we have been allocated a C of E secondary school for our son. Our difficulty is that we put 3 Catholic and 2 C of E schools as our 5 choices. The reason we put 2 C of E schools is that the other Catholic schools in the city are also oversubscribed and we didn't meet the parish criteria as we live too far anyway. Our 1st choice is a very oversubscribed Catholic school and we just don't know what to do. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

You're appealing for a certain school, not against the allocated school. So no, your allocation won't increase your chances of getting into a Catholic school.

Other than faith, what are your grounds for appeal? If you don't want the CofE school, are there any non faith schools with spaces available?

Other than the fact its C of E is it a good school?

If it is then isn't that more important than their interpretation of the bible?

People speak really highly of the school that we have been given - I don't know it personally, but all we have heard are good reports. My only worry I suppose is that's across the other side of the city so he will have to travel on his own and get two buses taking 1hr15 to get to, whereas our 1st choice is walking distance. Not really grounds for appeal as we would get free travel.

So if we are appealing to the school we want, we turn things around and say this school can best meet his faith needs, is mixed sex, offers better sporting opportunities etc? Thanks everyone for your helpful comments, it has clarified things as I don't know anyone that's gone through an appeal to ask.

Whilst I see where you're coming from, you can't really say you can't send them to a CofE school when you've actively put two of them down as choices.

Why didn’t you get into the local catholic school - did you not meet the attendance requirements or did you and there were just too many living closer?

We didn't get into our first two Catholic schools as they are oversubscribed and they use random allocation to determine the remaining places after looked after, siblings etc. :(

I think the fact that you put the CofE schools down show that you don't mind your child going there, if you hadn't put them down you may have a stronger case for the religious grounds. Any school you put down on your list you have to be prepared for your child to go x

There wouldn't be a case on religious grounds regardless of which schools the OP named. You are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you've got. You cannot win an appeal on the basis that you want (or don't want) a school of a particular faith.

OP - if your son is sporting, the better sporting opportunities are relevant. Being mixed sex is unlikely to fly as an argument - you would have to show that he has a particular need to go to a mixed sex school. Rather than talk about meeting his faith needs, perhaps you can argue that the school's ethos or its pastoral care would be beneficial for him.

Thanks everyone, really appreciate your comments xxx A friend has just mentioned the Human Rights Act and the right to education and respect for religious and philosophical convictions - I've never heard of it, off to take a look - has anybody heard of this?
prh47bridge - would a sport 'reference' from his running club be useful to have do you think? xx

I'm very familiar with the Human Rights Act. This brings the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law. However, it doesn't help you. Article 2 of the First Protocol does give you the right to ensure your religious and philosophical beliefs are respected during your child's education. However, this is not an absolute right. Provided these beliefs are properly considered, the authorities can depart from them provided there are good reasons. The good reason in this case is that there aren't sufficient places at your preferred schools for all the Catholic children that apply.

Based on decisions of the European Court of Human Rights, the HRA is completely irrelevant to admission appeals.

Yes, a letter from his running club documenting his involvement and, if he is showing real promise, saying that as well could be helpful to your case.

Thanks prh47bridge, I thought it was a long shot when I read it but I didn't understand it completely. One more question if people don't mind - the school we are appealing to has for this year increased its intake by 10, so it will need to have the space over the next 5 years for the extra 50 children as each year group leaves. Is there any argument that the space and resources are already in place for my son? Another long shot I know. I think I need to focus upon sporting abilities, and support for dyslexic children, thanks so much everybody xx

Are you in the North West and if so is the catholic criteria simply baptism rather than attendance? You mention parish criteria. Did you put your parish high school as one of your preferences as there should be one? If you did not then you will have a reason and could turn that into a positive for the catholic schools you are appealing for eg mixed school not single sex. However it would be clear that you prefer a CoE school to that school.

Hi Woodie, yes we are in the north west - our appeal is to a school that is simply baptism. Our local parish secondary is simply dire and we did not put this at all - a legitimate reason is that it does not offer French or the same sporing opps as the one we want. There were 10 Faith schools we could apply to. The 2 C of E and our 1st choice were not bound by parish, so we had to put the c of e schools on as we ran the real risk of being randomly allocated, which did happen at son's school. I'm just working out the journey time for the various bus routes and they are coming in at nearly 1hr 30 allowing for the walk the other end . Thanks xx

I'd say you can't appeal on the grounds of faith. You have been allocated a Christian faith school, CofE and Catholicism are both branches of the Christian faith. They are the same religion with different practices.
I don't think his journey to school is too excessive. Many children are up and out by 7.30 am to get to school. The fact that he will get concessionary travel is a bonus IMO!

A Church of England school would definitely respect your child's Catholic faith though, so no human rights breach wrt the right to education and respect for religious and philosophical convictions.

I thought that I recognised the city and assume that you live in the south of it. There are a large number of children going into Y7 this year which is putting more pressure on places. If I am right then your first preference traditionally has a very large number of appeals so you need to be realistic as many other families are in similar situation. The CoE schools are very popular and also very oversubscribed with a similar number of appeals so you have a good back up. If travelling is an major issue (I would check the timing at peak hours as it is slower than off peak or what might be quotes) then consider if there are any other options that are worth an appeal.

Prh47bridge is right, as ever. The Human Rights Act won’t help you here - there’s no human right to force a school that’s already full to take an additional pupil. Focus on needs that you child has which only the preferred school can meet.

the school we are appealing to has for this year increased its intake by 10, so it will need to have the space over the next 5 years for the extra 50 children as each year group leaves

I don't follow this argument. They have increased their Y7 intake by 10. Assuming they stay at the higher level, the total number in the school will go up by 10 each year for the next few years. That does not mean that all the resources for those additional pupils are in place now. And in any event, admitting your son would mean that, in 5 years time, there would be 51 additional students rather than 50. So I don't think this argument flies.

Woodie I actually live in the north - walking distance from school. Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. I think we will be doomed at appeal, but we have nothing to lose xxxxx

I am really appalled by your post OP. Stop being so narrow minded. Allow your child to be exposed to other views and send him to the best school you can irrespective of faith. The UN convention on the rights of the child says in article 14 that every child has the freedom to believe what they want. Allow them to make the choice for themselves by being exposed to other ideas.