Secondary school appeal advice - time spent out of the country has lost us a place

[MrsZuko]

I'm hoping to get some advice on a secondary school appeal. There's a longer backstory as to the reasons why, but my husband and I took our kids out of school last year and homeschooled them whilst we travelled abroad. We told the council and the school of our intentions and we didn't leave the country until after we had made the school application.

We provided all the correct information, my son sat the banding exam and we only applied for the one school because it's the school we want my son to go to and it's literally across the street. It's a 180 pupil intake and because we are so close we knew we would get in on distance (and I checked with the school before the application went in).

We had a call from the council in December when they were processing the application and wanted our address overseas which we were unable to give. We don't have an overseas address - our home is still our home. We still live in it, we're on the electoral roll there etc - we're travelling, we haven't moved abroad.

Initially the council threatened to pull the application altogether. They then said they they would use our home address for the application because he doesn't have a fixed one, but that they would not allow it to be used in the distance criteria. So because of this period of time spent out of the country, the council are saying my son is not resident there and so we have lost our place. We've been offered a school that my son would have to get a bus to, in an area of London which is constantly in the news at the moment for knife crime (I know we can't use that in the appeal).

We are appealing, on the basis that the council have not fairly applied their criteria but I haven't written the appeal yet and wondered if anyone could offer me any advice? I'm finding this really confusing and I don't know how we can define our "residency" other than the usual bills/Drs letter/council tax etc, all of which I submitted with the original application. There's nothing in the application that says we must physically have been in the country for a certain amount of days prior to the 2019 start of term. We told the council 6 months before we left and had no idea this would be an issue. The school we applied to has no problem with it but has no jurisdiction.

I know there are a lot of people on Mumsnet who have lots of experience with the appeals process - I'm really anxious about what to say and would really appreciate any advice. We are still abroad, due to come back at the beginning of July but I plan to fly back for the appeal.

I am surprised an LA doesn’t have this covered

There is nothing specific in their admission arrangements. They are trying to shoehorn the OP's situation into the rules for people applying from an overseas address. But, under their rules, what matters is the address at the time of application and at that point the OP was living in the UK. So she applied from a UK address that was valid within the rules.

I hope someone can help you soon, it sounds a rough position to be in especially with the lack of clarity on the impact it might have upfront. Maybe that might help your case if you have all the paperwork for it?

Having had to prove residence before, it has always been proving living in the place stated, not just that you're paying bills for it. Extended periods of time out of the country usually counts against residency requirements for most things, but the LA may be different or make an exception.

Proving my residency involved providing bank statements to the address in my name, getting letters from the letting agency, getting letters from the GP surgery that I had attended appointments during that time, and essentially a pile of paperwork from approved sources that together is viewed at as enough proof that I live where I live and have throughout the time wanted. While they're unlikely to camp, they can show up at your door.

Whether OP just used one preference or all of them is irrelevant - if the LA decided that they wouldn't use her registered address for one preference, they could hardly then say that they would for another preference (hopefully!)

By allocating her a school in the borough, they've conceded that she is resident. To allocated her nearest school with places, they must have measured from somewhere, which will obviously be the address that she gave them.

That's why I suggested asking the LA what you need to do now to be admitted on to waiting lists - they'll invariable trip themselves up and will hopefully back down before things go any further.

If they haven't backed down by national offers acceptance day (14th March?), they you can ask them where you son is on the waiting list for the school that you named as a first preference.

If he's the list, they've accepted your application but made up how to process it as they go along. They can't do this - there's an admissions code for a reason.

If he's not on the list, they need to clarify why not as they've clearly accepted their responsibility to allocate your child a secondary school place and used the address you gave to do so to allocate this. They can't do this - all applications needs to be treated in accordance with the code.

Hopefully, they will back down before then.

One last thought... ask the LA to confirm what postal address they sent your allocation letter to on 1st March.

We did not receive a written letter, only an email (which stated we would not receive a letter). I assumed that’s how the LA communicates these days.

DS is on the wait list (I called to check) but they allocate by his band (which is completely new to me) so he’s in 9th (and last) place for his band. The LA have said that for his position to change we will need to provide proof we are back in the country which is either a return plane ticket or a solicitors letter. Thankfully prh47bridge has given me some really good advice so we will appeal and hope for the best.

If they haven't backed down by national offers acceptance day

There isn't a national offers acceptance day. There is a national offers day but it is up to each LA to set its own deadline for accepting or rejecting offers.

As it is the LAs responsibility to have policies and procedures which are fit for purpose, and your LA clearly does not have, I think I would be tempted to take this to your local councillor, or the councillor who has responsibility for education in your borough.

Though sometimes this can be counter-productive.

I have always known fair banding schools to run the waiting list band by band.

What happens if you are coming from abroad and you are taking up a post in the UK in for instance July.

Would that mean you couldn’t apply for a school place until you got here and because you are non resident have to keep your children at home until a place becomes available.

Would that mean you couldn’t apply for a school place until you got here and because you are non resident have to keep your children at home until a place becomes available

In general, unless you are on Crown Service, you have to wait until you move back before applying, although some LAs will allow you to apply a little before you move. Once you have applied the LA must find a place for you even if all local schools are full.

I think part of the problem is that "resident" is so ill-defined, different organisations seem to have different criteria.

@oliversmumsarmy, yes, generally you can't apply for a school place until you are in the country (exemptions for military & diplomatic families) with an address, and able to take up the school place within a few weeks of applying.

generally you can't apply for a school place until you are in the country (exemptions for military & diplomatic families) with an address, and able to take up the school place within a few weeks of applying

Then why not wait till July and HE until a place becomes available

In the OP's case, she is trying to join in the normal application window for secondary school admission, and get a place at the school she wants for her son to start in September. If you are applying for an "in year" admission, eg if she wanted him to go back into Y6 when they got back, yes she would have to wait until she was back in the country in July.

Hi OP, take a look at the UKCISA website it has some great case law for proving ordinary residence in the UK. It's mostly aimed at uni students but the case law for proving ordinary residence is still applicable.

It also has some examples for the consideration of children who are abroad due to the 'temporary' absence from their ordinary residence in the UK due to parental employment abroad.

www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/Ordinary-residence-case-law

The address to be used is the home at which the pupil spends overnight at the majority of the school week. When you applied you were living in the house address that you used for the application. That is all as it should be. However as soon as you were not living (it is not which you own) at the address your responsibility was to inform the LA that you were no longer living there.
I think that the LA have then accepted the original address for communication purposes but allocated some very high distance as the distance from school to where you were living. What that means is that you would have been last on the admission criteria order for your preferred school and not allocated a place on 1st March. What the LA have done is follow their procedure and that is if they cannot allocate the preferred school(s) then they allocate to a school that has places. In other words had less preferences than the PAN of the school. I think the LA have actually done what was the correct procedure once they realised you were travelling abroad on 31st October
You might be able to argue at appeal that you were badly advised (especially if it is in writing) by the LA.If you had delayed going travelling till after the cut off date for on-time applications (31st October) you would have been quite in order to confirm in November you were travelling but that the original address should be used for both communication and allocation purposes as that is within the rules on admissions.
Obviously if you return to the UK you could then get the LA to put the original address back in play which would mean you are near (hopefully) the top of the waiting list. However the LA might not be keen on that unless you will confirm in writing that this is the permanent address that you living at and will continue to do so until September.

Is the LA permitted to make up a 'very high distance' from which to make allocations if this isn't in their admission code?

OP couldn't give them an address from overseas (as she didn't have one). Do they just stick a pin in a map then?

DS is on the wait list (I called to check) but they allocate by his band (which is completely new to me)

This statement worries me - if you looked at the admissions criteria before you applied - then surely you would know this already?

I assume that your permanent home is in the London area. Several schools that I know of use random allocation (lottery) to allocate places. One school doesn't use distance at all - another school gives equal status to all applicants within a 2 mile radius before randomly allocating places from the different bands - and that's after aptitude places, siblings, children of staff places have already been allocated. Some schools have 3 academic bands, another has 9 bands.These schools often have over 1,000 dc sitting the banding tests and they are notorious for ending up with large numbers of high achieving dc. Is your dc in a high band or a low one?

Please check the admissions criteria again.

I'm sure that phr47 has looked at the school's admission policy in order to advise OP.

I'm sure that phr47 has looked at the school's admission policy in order to advise OP.

I've just checked - I think the LA is asked for but not the name of the school. I might be wrong but my suggestion (random allocation) explains why the op's dc is 9th on the waiting list within his band.

I think they have a private message exchange.

I'm surprised that the LA have been able to tell OP her son's place on the waiting list - most London LAs give a full couple of weeks for people to accept/decline offers before waiting lists are finalised.

Clavinova: I think the OP was referring to allocation of the waiting list when she said she hadn’t known it was by band.

Not many people study the mechanics of the post offer-day waiting lists before they apply.

She has been caught out by an LA ruling that she thought she had closed off by e nailing them before she left.

Prh47bridge invited her to PM the LA and he cane back with specific information. She says she has had very good advice from him.... do they are communicating off board.