Any appeal help- no special circumstances or solid evidence

[allcrossednow]

Please could anyone advise what help/evidence I can request from our current school (& anyone else you.can think of!) to support my appeal application? I was thinking of asking my son's teacher if they could provide an impact statement highlighting why 'in their professinal opinion' they support our choice for the chosen school & believe it to be better suited to him & his learning styles & current academic level etc over the one allocated.

None of our 3 choices or catchment given- was allocated a dismally, very publicly failing school with an outstanding petition from its current 6 form students to remove it's academy status for failing them with little funding & lack of basic resources.

Does anyone know if a school/teacher would be happy/allowed to do that? I don't want to ask if it's not the done thing! Especially as I rarely see her other than parents eve because my DS walks in & out of school himself. I do know her well enough though she has had him a previous year too & only has high praise for him so would think she would be ok to ask.

We basically fall in to the 'other' category of criteria for all schools with no extenuating circumstances. I can demonstrate why the chosen school is the right choice based on my child's interests & academic ability. The school's own ethos is very academic driven with high achieving across the board being their focus. So I hope that basing most of my case around that will be ok. (I am in no way a tiger mum or wish to come across like my child is brilliant because I say so)! That is not us I just wish to make a solid case with little to no professional backing & do the best for my child as who really would set their kids up to fail from the off when there may be the slimmest of hopes. He will drastically full behind at the allocated school within weeks if he isn't given good role models or working to the current standard he is used to.

Would also like to say we are mainstream not private. Very hard to get across on paper that he is not a little genius who I am pining over. He's just an average child who enjoys to learn & does well at his expected level & slightly above but is highly thought of by all teachers, peers.

He has a recognised certificate from Trinity London College achieved last year in musical theatre along with an in depth report from the principle of the academy of arts he has attended for 5 years. I am hoping that would be a solid piece of eveidence- detailing west end work & local theatre experience? As the chosen school has a great department for music/drama. Along with many supporting extra curricular clubs which he would thrive in. He has a keen interest in several of the other clubs too. Some of which are not available at the allocated school.
(Also not sure if it would be relevant but the arts academy he attends actually uses the school site on weekends, so my son is familiar with part of the school & the travel route).

I have no help to draft my case & just feel at my wits end that in reality we get very little choice on where our kids are given if we have nothing other than "this is the best fit for us".

Any help appreciated. Apologies for the length wanted to give as much info as we have. Thank you for reading if you got this far!

There is little enough money in education anyway - spending money so more parents can get 'the school they want', even when by doing so the school is doubled in size and changed out of all recognition, while another school has half-empty facilities, is wasteful of the very limited funds there are.

Firstly we're talking about accommodating fluctuations between 3, and so I think it s reasonable, because its needed, if the upshot is that some DC that would flourish in one school could be consigned to failure in another. What would be the purpose of forcing an unwilling DC with no other contacts into a poorly performing school out of area that can provide their specialisms,.

It does sound like a recipe for failing education.

Just on your next post. The choice is completely removed, they have no choice at all (I mean expressing pref) all 'preferences' are pointless. The time and energy spent assessing the schools that are supposed to be offering sufficient places within their area.

DPs will vote with their feet and leave failing schools to die unless major interventions are put in to drag them up to and beyond expected value. (Or DC forced into them so they don't die)

Actually Smother, it's not very often that children can't get into the local or catchment school, at least not IME. It's more that parents preferred other schools, and there were no spaces at those schools, but because they didn't put down the nearest or catchment school, they got offered a place at a much further away one.

I infer from the OP's first post that she didn't put her catchment school on the form "none of our three choices or catchment was given" - apologies if I am wrong op. That's up to her but it I read her op correctly, there may well have been room at her catchment school, but she preferred others.

im not saying the system is ideal, but the only other option is to get everyone to go to their local school. As soon as you give parents the chance to express a preference, they are all going to want the same successful schools. The only other answer is for all schools to be successful, but then (as success in these terms is mainly measured by GCSE results) I am not sure what you will do with the kids like my Ds1, who couldn't get a C in English to save his life.

Smother,

So - if i understand your rather confusing post - you believe every school should have a fixed catchment, and should expand and contract yearly to match the number of pupils of that age in that catchment, along wuith every other school in every other catchment?

Rather than a region ensuring that, overall, there are enough school places for the children living in the region, and then sorting out the school allocations using admissions criteria?

Also what cantkeepawayforever said (wish I could like posts on MN)

It's more that parents preferred other schools, and there were no spaces at those schools, but because they didn't put down the nearest or catchment school, they got offered a place at a much further away one.

Exactly. I would be really interested to know how many of the parents 'allocated a failing school miles away' actually put all their closest ['catchment'] schools on their form?

If they didn't, is your point that popular schools should grow exponentially to serve children living OUTSIDE their 'genuine' catchment in order to facilitate choice? While less popular schools should shrivel as people living within their catchment don't apply to them?

Are you talking from a place of knowledge opinion, smother? I think that might be where the clash is occurring. You seem to be saying what you think should happen. I'm telling what the situation is. Now, you can say that it's ridiculous in your view. Fine. But it's true. Parents don't have choice, they've never had choice, and nobody has ever said they have choice. Which is a good thing. Because if parents had 'choice', they'd all choose the Outstanding, highly sought after school, and there would be 900 kids in a year group designed for 300, and suddenly class sizes would be up in the 40s and 50s, because, y'know, school grounds don't get bigger just because more kids go there, and parents would start complaining that kids were having to share desks, or sit in hallways.

Keeping the number of children in each school to broadly the number of children it was intended to take allows the best education possible for all children. Maintained Schools in need of improvement get Local Authority help to improve.

Parents who are unhappy can appeal.

Just to say, i read that none of the 3 shed written were offered, and therefore the reason for the thread. If not, then I've read it and the situation wrong, so have been labouring under a misapprehension and wasting my time, lots!!

That last post was all a bit silly and pointless wasn't it.

Just because you say its 'sensible' doesn't make it so.

Poor OP, how have you got on?

Smother,

But what we don't know was whether those 3 were reasonable to put down on a form.

I mean, I could put down the 3 best schools in the country on my form, and wouldn't be offered any of them ... and that definitely wouldn't require either a letter to my MP or, particularly, any sympathy!

What we don't know from OP was whether her form included a 'banker' - a school that she would in every possible previous year have been allocated a place in, however 'relatively undesirable'. If she did, then I do have genuine sympathy for her position, because that's really unfortunate. If it didn't, if she's gambled and the gamble hasn't paid off, then while it is a personal disappointment, and I wish her well with her appeal, it doesn't merit changing the system.

i livevin a city with a range of schools. There are three that get consistently excellent results and as such, are highly rated. I could put the three of them on my form and I wouldn't get offered any. Why not? because I live several miles from each of them. They are roughly at points east, west and south of the city I live to the north of.

Would I then be reasonable to be up in arms at the ridiculous situation? Not really There is a good school two minutes' walk away. There is another about a mile away. Seemed to me to be a good plan to apply to those, and no they are not Ofsted outstanding, but my kids seem to be doing ok despite that.

Smother,

So you genuinely think it ISN'T sensible to balance numbers of pupils with the size of schools, and only to build more schools if more capacity is needed within the system??

Your view would be that popular schools should expand exponentially, and unpopular ones shrink away - with all the associated costs - because you think it is wrong for parents not to be able to choose the school that they would like and be guaranteed one of their choices, however unreasonable those choices might be?

But not being offered any of your preferences doesn't mean the system is necessarily broken. It depends if your choices were realistic. And, if you put 3 preferences on your list and didn't include your catchment school on there, then you didn't apply for your catchment school, so will only be offered it if there are places left after all the people who did apply for it have been given places and they are offering 'allocated' spaces, by which time they'll be looking at who gets the place first out of who is left.

That is why we always say "put your catchment school on your list, or you'll end up in a school you really don't want, far away, rather than a school you'd rather not have nearby."

From the OP, she has written "none of our 3 choices or our catchment school were given, which indicates that the OP didn't include the catchment school on the form.

So the system didn't break, here, it was sadly a case of either not understanding the system, or thinking that one of the 3 choices was a sure thing so the catchment school wasn't needed.

So the system didn't break, here, it was sadly a case of either not understanding the system

Sadly, this is really common, even in highly intelligent parents who are clued up. Our neighbours didn't include the local 'banker' school on their form because 'if we don't get our choices we will get that school anyway'.

Sadly, the 'banker' school was filled by people who DID put it on their form, and our neighbours were horrified to be allocated a school about 4 miles away on the other side of town. They were all aggrieved, and it was hard to say 'You totally misunderstood how this works'....

I don't think anyone has said that at all Clary
Didn't the OP put the 3 in her catchment and this is what the whole thread has hinged around, and that she'd have to go out of area to a shit poorer performing school?

Sorry Smother,no one is saying what?

op doesn't say where the schools were she applied for. I don't know where she lives, but in my city, it's hard to be in catchment for more than one or at most two secondary schools,

I didn't think anyone in the thread said that [what you were saying] Clary

Smother,

I think that you have misread the OP:

None of our 3 choices or catchment given

I read this as she made 3 out-of-catchment choices, but didn't include her catchment school, and wasn't given any of her choices or the catchment school (unsurprising, because she didn't apply for it, and places there were - reasonably - given to those who named it on their form)

I genuinely know of nowhere where anyone is in the 'formal' catchment - ie the one defined on a school map by the LA - for more than one school. However they may be in the 'effective catchment' - ie the area from which applicants are usually admitted in practice - of more than 1 school, or may qualify for additional schools through e.g. religion or selection. I don't know whether the OP lives in an area where there are 'formal' catchments, or whether it is simply 'distance from school' that is the admissions criterion, and what she refers to as her 'catchment' school 9the one she didn't apply for) has an effective catchment that - if she had applied to that school - normally includes her house.

@allcrossednow
Did you not put any of the schools in your catchment on the form? i.e. the ones you are expected to be selecting from?

Oh gosh, sorry I had to take a day away from everything yesterday, it has gotten alittle overwhelming to deal with. I didn't expect to come back to so much going on.

To clarify I live in a small ish town with 6 secondary schools. 2 of which are at the furthest points of the town in opposite directions. None rated 'outstanding' so the one I choose as 1st pref & will be appealing for it is not the highly elusive 'golden ticket' school as it were. It's is actually the closest school in miles to me (1.4) & is not a faith school but does have a set of criteria but stated they do not work on an 'official catchment' as they have 300 spaces to fill which their immediate vicinity cannot produce so they do take from outside every year.

My offical catchment being (1.5) that I did not put, no.... again it's specialisims & 6th form do not offer the subjects my son was interested in & therefore thought I would do as the form is intended. State our 3 PREFERRED schools that we should have had good chance of success in at least 2. We would only look to move DC anyway if he had official catchment, so seemed unfair on a child who did want it & I belived I would have no real right to complain/appeal if I had selected the school as an option?!
2nd choice was (2.4miles)
3rd being a Catholic school that would have been difficult at best. But was also only (2.6miles).

So all 3 of my selections were the out of the 4 closest options to me. I have not as stated tried for the equally high achieving school as my 1st choice that is just over 3.2 miles away as I believed it was too far to stand a chance & would leave me where I am.
Equally the poor school we have been allocated is 3.3miles out & it too was not an option based on being too far/risky incase we were not accepted on distance & the current problems made our decision final. Why send my son to a failing school over 3 miles out when I wouldn't consider the achieving school the equal distance? And we were (at least we thought) fortunate enough for it not to be an issue as we had 3 good choices within the closest vicinity?

I do wholly accept the criticisms when parents only select the VERY best 3 schools at the furthest points from them & overlook a decent enough choice nearby. But that is not what I have done.

Sorry no, everyone thinks their kid deserves the best school so you can only prioritise certain students. You can go on the wait lists though - I threatened to home educate which within 24 hours got us the school of our choice!

"We would only look to move DC anyway if he had official catchment, so seemed unfair on a child who did want it & I belived I would have no real right to complain/appeal if I had selected the school as an option?!"

This isn't true. You have the right to appeal for any school, regardless of where you are placed and why you were placed there.

The difference, presumably, between the 1.4 mile school that you didn't get and the 1.5 mile school that you didn't apply for, I presume (not having the criteria in front of me) is that for the 1.5 mile school you would be in a higher category as 'in catchment'. So you would have had a better chance of getting in.

When the right to express a preference was introduced by Kenneth Baker in the 1987 Education Act, the very simplistic argument for it was that popular schools would be able to expand (like balloons?) to accommodate extra pupils, while unpopular ones would have to pull their socks up or close down.