Admissions question re what order to put schools

[Pollypickapocketor2]

Hi, just wondered if someone could please help me with a question regarding admissions.

Our DC is in Year 5 at a feeder school for a nice secondary school. After looked after, SEN and siblings its the feeder school places before distance. So a very, very good chance of getting in.

However, there is one school that we would like above the nice secondary, and it is a church school. Our priest has said that he will support our application, which is great, but it is a very oversubscribed school, so by no means a guarantee that we would get a place.

My dilemma therefore, is do we risk the bird in the hand for the one in the bush? If I put the church school as first choice but dont get it, have I blown our chance of the nice secondary of which we're at the feeder because we havent put it first?

I should say upfront, that we are outside the catchment for both schools, and we wouldnt meet any other criteria such as distance, siblings etc.

I have read that somewhere that it doesnt matter what order you put the schools down, but I dont know if that's true.

Any advice appreciated please.

No you haven't blown your chance. Put the one you want first. Always put the schools in your genuine order of preference (making sure there is one that you have a sure/decent chance with somewhere on your list).

The order you put them in the form only comes into play if you would get a place at more than one choice. So say you qualify for a place at the church school and the local school but put the first choice as the church school you will be offered that. If you only qualify for the local school you will get that even if it is your second preference

No. Putting the church school above the nice school will not affect your chances of qualifying for the nice school. All it means is that if you happen to qualify for both, you will be offered the church school as it is your higher preference.

All schools/LAs have to operate an 'equal preference' scheme. So you will be treated as if every school on your form is first choice. Only if more than one school can accept your choice will they then look at which school you have said you would prefer your child to go to.

You say you are outside catchment for both, but don't mention where catchment comes into play for the first school - are you sure it is the slam dunk you think it is (over half DS's friends have not got into our first choice despite all being at a designated feeder school in a designated catchment area)? Do use your third choice on a safe bet too...

No put the church school first if that’s truly what you want.

The way it works is that they look at all the schools on your list (in no order) to see which ones you qualify for a place at. At this point the order you put them in is irrelevant.

If you put 3 schools on your form and qualify for a place in all of them, the LA then look to see out if those 3 schools you’ve qualified for, which would you PREFER. Hence your offer.

Say you put 6 schools down and qualify for a place in schools 2,4 and 6. You’ll be given number 2.

In your case if you put the schools as follows:

1. Church school
2. Good school
3. Other school

If you then qualify for both 1 and 2 you’d be given 1. You would only be given 2 if you qualified for 2 and didn’t qualify for 1.

The order you put the schools down in only matters when you qualify for more than one on your list of preferences.

Thanks so much everyone for all the good advice. That has made me feel a lot better about putting our preferred school first, but with the knowledge that if we dont get that, we havent blown it with the feeder school.

Brimfulofchocolate - Im not sure I really understand what you mean. But just to explain, the criteria for admissions to the nice school is that the order is - Looked After children, SEN, siblings, then feeder school, then finally walking distance to the school. We would not get in on walking distance to the school. Our headteacher has said that even if every child from each of the 3 feeder schools applies, there is enough places at the secondary even given the LA, SEN and siblings, so I think that it means that we have a place if we want it? Have I understood that right or have I got that wrong?

Thanks everyone for all your help.

What is your catchment school?

Don’t go on what the head says. Many heads are suprisingly ill informed on admissions. He can say what he wants on your chances of getting in, but it is no guarantee. Check your admissions criteria carefully.

as brimful says, if your area operates in catchment rather than home to school distance- then definitely consider your catchment school as that is the one you will probably have the highest chance of getting in.

You do not want to be left without a school place.

Check whether admissions is catchment or distance. If it’s catchment you might live next door and not get in if it’s oversubscribed with catchment children.

Ah, sorry; I didn't realise that distance and catchment were two different things. Both schools operate a distance from home to school as a criteria but in the case of the nice school it is listed after the feeder school, and in the case of the church school it is after they have filled their percentage of church school places. How that translates to where we live is that unless you're at a feeder school or live very near by you won't get the nice school, and with the church school, no child that lives near us gets a place unless it's a church place as they don't live near enough.

Thanks for the advice about our nearest school, it's not awful so we were thinking of putting it down as third choice.

Yes you're right, don't worry. Feeder schools do make unusual situations where children who live a great distance from the school can get a place over children who live geographically closer but have no link with the school. We have children who live 10-12 miles away who come to our local secondary school on transport because they attended a feeder school, but the last offered place last year on distance grounds alone was just over 5 miles away.

Thank you for clarifying Lougle.

I still dont understand the difference between catchment and distance from home to school though so if anyone could explain that, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks to everyone, its really made me feel much better about what we end up putting down and in which order. I really appreciate it.

The SEN category is usually those with an EHCP. Does he have one? Might be worth applying. You get to nominate the school you want.

No, my DC doesnt have an EHCP or any SEN needs.

We were advised that one can't really game the system - just put the one you want first. It was good advice - we reckoned our first choice was incredibly unlikely to come through, even though admissions just changed before the deadline in a way that favoured us slightly, but put it anyway, and we got it.

A catchment is a defined priority admissions area. So e.g. for XX Community School, children who live in postcodes XX1, XX2 and XX3 are given priority over children who do not live in those postcodes.

A distance criterion on the other hand is just that - all other things being equal, the closer you live the more likely you are to get in (where the school is oversubscribed). So there isn’t a defined catchment area, but the circle around the school from where children get in will be bigger or smaller depending on demand and supply of places in a given year.

The SEN category is usually those with an EHCP

No it absolutely is not. Children with an EHCP do not go through the normal admissions process at all. If the school is following the Admissions Code correctly it won't have a category for children with an EHCP as they are admitted automatically.

If there is a specific category for SEN children and it comes below looked after children it is for children with SEN that do NOT have an EHCP.

A catchment is a defined priority admissions area

This. For a catchment each school will have a drawn area, children living in that area will get priority. Boundaries aren’t circles with the school in the middle, they tend to run along housing estates, for example, and will also depend on where other schools are.

So if a catchment boundary runs between your house and the school, you are out of catchment.

A friend of mine has a back garden which joins on to the rear boundary of a school. That rear boundary also defines the catchment boundary. So even though they live all but next door, they won’t get in. If it were home to school distance they’d probably be first on the list. Their catchment school is in the middle of their housing estate.

Be careful with the feeder school above distance. Our local secondary changed it to feeder within catchment, then catchment, then feeder outside catchment and a lot of children missed it. We were told by a head we would definitely get a place at our chosen school and we didn't. Use all your choices in genuine order of preference, with a school you're almost certain to get in to by distance.

@SMaCM but to do that, they have to publish the change, so parents will be aware of it in the admissions criteria. If there is a separate criteria for in/out - catchment feeder attenders, then parents need to carefully look at the impact of that on their application choices.

It's like all of these things. Read the criteria, see where you fit, and decide whether you have a realistic chance of a place. Then make sure you have a school that you will get into and will be accepting of in your list (unless you live in a black hole, in which case I sympathise).

Thanks again everyone, I get it now. None of the schools have a catchment area, they all go distance. And thanks for the heads up about the changing admission criteria possibility. I will be sure to double check that to see if there have been any changes nearer the application time.

If you have 3 choices put the church school first, the nice school you feed into second and then look at last year's data to see where you'd easily qualify on distance. If the first two preferences go wrong somehow then it's better to have a school you don't want within easy reach than a school you don't want on the other side of town.

Thanks, that's nice and clear now.