St Albans Boys or Watford Grammar Boys?

[EmilyBingo]

My son has got into to St Albans Boys & Watford Grammar for Boys. Is it worth spending the money? Are we mad? Help - Pro's Cons?

Absolutely not!

I think the benefit of going to an independent (although it seems wrong) still exists in the adult world. Many of the application processes now for large companies are screened by computers and not real people. Sometimes, I hate to say it, I think children from private schools get preferential treatment when it comes to grad schemes in the city...

It also gives children a wonderful opportunity to experience different activities, subjects, sports, school trips etc etc (just because they have the funding to provide the best facilities for kids).

Grammar schools are great because the kids are mixing with academically focused hard working children from all different backgrounds. The only thing I would say is, grammars aren't very good at producing well rounded children (in my humble opinion). The focus is mainly on academia rather than arts and sports.

I might send my older one to a grammar school and my little one to an independent as a social experiment. Is that cruel?

What were your original reasons for wanting him to sit the entrance exam at St.Albans @EmilyBingo?

DS sat numerous entrance exams and got into Merchant Taylors & HABS too, but we liked the community feel of St Albans. I agree with you that privately educated kids seem to have an extra edge in adult life - more equipped across the board;sport, music etc and as a consequence are more confident. We have a daughter in year below - so we looking at 2 sets of fees really.
Just thinking we can have better holidays/ kids can go on all school trips etc if we choose Grammar school ( which is now an academy) and we can pay for more extra curricular stuff if need be. Will it give them equal confidence?

Watford Grammar. St Albans is a good school but I don’t think it offers enough over and above Watford to justify the fees. It’s not a big enough name to have any kind of social advantage in work or similar and I don’t think it will make any difference either for networking any connections which personally I think is a load of rubbish unless it’s an Eton or Harrow kind of place.

Absolutely Watford Grammar. Believability is right. We had a similar choice and went for selective state. Both my DSs had houses bought for them at uni as a consequence. A lot of boys who go to the private schools around here are the ones who don't get into the selective states.

Thanks everyone. I am still unsure because since 2010 Watford Grammar is an academy (changed to a comprehensive to be an academy) and only 25% of places get awarded on academic performance. There are reports of some distracting not so bright boys getting in on sibling & distance entry criteria. At Alban's is 100% selective. Ugh.

Well it was never 100% selective anyway. They set very well and presumably your son would be in the higher sets if he got a place by selection. Equally, don’t be under any illusions that all the children at St Albans will behave perfectly, general arsing about happens everywhere. Watford’s results speak for themselves, they’re getting the results they get without being 100% selective

Also in 2010 you could only become an academy because you were an outstanding school, it was a plus point not a minor one and shouldn’t be a factor.

And siblings of children from families who want the best education for their children and who are prepared enough to tutor at least the eldest and distance .... of children’s who live within about 200 metres of leafy cassiobury where houses go for nearly £1m. I wouldn’t give too much concern. The children at both schools will be broadly similar

Thank you so much for the chat. It's really helped.

Exactly! I’d go for Watford Grammar. And as for private schools giving their pupils an extra edge, that honestly depends on where they want to go in life! They get good advice in terms of what Uni’s to go for but he’lol get that at Watford too. I’ve worked as Recruiter for over 20 years, I don’t recruit for City jobs we’re going to a Public School would help. Conversely in the sectors I work in, a privileged background is often down played to fit in culturally. What Uni you go too though with various of my clients matters though & on that basis both would set him up well!

Please excuse the typo’s - going to private school myself has obviously only given me no attention to detail!

Sometimes, I hate to say it, I think children from private schools get preferential treatment when it comes to grad schemes in the city...
Categorically not true at the top firms in the City. Possibly true for private wealth management jobs where the people you know drives business.

Where do you live? The commute between Watford and St Alban's is a pain. I think that would be a factor to me.

Watford Boys, yes there are the usual handful of troublemakers, same as any school. But enough hardworking students to level it out, imo.

Which did your son like best?

Ask your son which he prefers. His opinion must count too. I know about St Albans boys and that it is a fabulous school, though worth the money? Possibly it would open up a world of opportunities for him for the future.

If you’re not willing to spend the money, you could put that away for a deposit for his first property purchase in the future. It all depends how you think your ds will apply himself at Watford grammar. Whereas somewhere like St Albans boys it’ll be very involved, and full on. If he’s behind on a subject or there are any issues they will pick up on it quickly.

With private schools it’s not just the fees it’s the additional uniform costs including sports kit which can be more, the extra activities, the School trips, the travel to get there, the fact that his friends may live miles away from him and you will be the taxi service for him to meet up with them. I am not against private schools but Watford Grammar is a good school and still maintains a good reputation. FWIW my DC2 (many years ago now) got scholarships to a number of private schools for secondary but chose the grammar school on the basis it was the closest to home. There’s a lot to be said for not spending what amounts to several hours a week in the car or on the train commuting to school on top of the other considerations.

I’m not sure how WGSB being an academy is a factor? That means they are responsible just to their governors, not the local authority, and have more freedom.

Re behaviour - I would be astounded if behaviour is better at St Albans school. Selection/intelligence does not automatically equate to good behaviour. WGSB is full of frankly middle class, well-brought-up young men. And altho only 25% is on the academic test, younger siblings are obviously from the same families, 10% are selected on musical aptitude, which IMO is largely a selection of socio-economic privilege too. An intelligent boy would thrive at WGSB.

Did you not visit both and get a sense of which you preferred? Do you think St Albans School offers £18,600 more value each year than Watford Grammar?

APere - Watford Grammar isn’t a true Grammar as it’s only 25% selection on academic ability. But they have a huge, extensive extra-curricula programme, so it’s just not true to say that they are only about the academics, not sport and music etc.

I have two boys at St Albans and our experience is that it is an exceptional school with excellent behaviour. We also thought carefully about the financial implications but felt at the time and also now, that private school would give our sons the confidence and edge that more mixed schools couldn’t. We feel that the investment in their future is relatively short-term but that it will help shape the rest of their life. Having said that, I know little about Watford boys but if they are only 25% selective then I can’t believe that they’re comparable.

Watford Boys gets excellent results, but not as outstanding as St Albans. It’s heavily over-subscribed. Altho it’s 25% selective, the other places are 10% music, and almost all the rest siblings (who may well have got in on academic ability but don’t need to, because they’ve got a sibling at that school or the Girls’ Grammar) and distance. The distance maximum means you’ve got to live in the most expensive, nicest part of Watford, where a 3 bed is £800k+. So 25% selective is somewhat misleading, as the other 75% are by no means deprived kids from the local estate.

We live in Watford so yes probably 1 hour on coach each way to St Alban's.

Hm, are you more Garston end or Croxley Green end? As you probably know, the traffic will be absolutely horrendous at school drop off /pick up times. Have you seen the St Albans Rd (in Watford) or Holywell Hill (in St A) at those times? A big traffic jam...Do you know anyone who does that journey and can say how long it def takes?

St Albans is a good private school, Watford Grammar is an excellent state one. Wigeon makes a lot of really valid points here. £18k+ and 2hrs' journey a day? From an external perspective it's really hard to see why you would turn down WG when it's on your doorstep.

Yes you are right. In the course of the day we've been talking at length and think WG is the way to go. He will be happy, he likes both schools. Also the pressure on money will be lifted which should make for better family life for all. Had my heart so set on St Alban's for so long - it was difficult to listen to my head talking about WG. Thank you everyone.

So glad you've come to a decision you're all happy with EmilyBingo, a friend of mine likened the process of changing school plans to "turning around a supertanker"! Hope your DS gets on really well at Watford.

Good to know that you've made a choice.

Re: the selective element, I know boys who didn't get Watford Boys because their score was too low, but were offered St Albans and MT's which they were holding as reserve. If they'd been offered the Boy's, they definitely would have taken it.

Can only assume that Watford is harder to get into?