Stay in Islington or move for secondary?

[AngryAngie]

DH, DD (aged 6) and I live in Islington. We want to move house this year—we own and DH doesn’t like renting. We’re unlikely to move again before secondary school so I have to think about it now.

DD is at an Islington state primary. I had a bad secondary school experience back in the 1980s (racism, bullying) so anxious that it be better for DD. Ideally I’d send her to a local, mixed, state, non-religious secondary. (Ironically, that is the type of school I went to.) However, few of the people we know locally have opted for Islington secondaries and even if they improve, we won’t necessarily get a place at a good one.

Unfortunately I can’t drive (for medical reasons) and having to be near transport options for work has ruled out moving to a few places (Stoke Newington, Crouch End, Muswell Hill) that some friends have chosen. We can’t afford to move an area more expensive than Islington. We don’t want to move out of London.

Both DH and I did well in school. While it’s too early to tell about DD, it seems sensible to assume passing an exam to get into a selective school may be possible. We are open to all options—including private, grammar, and religious. However, we wouldn’t get a faith place, or a music or performing arts one for example (DD not keen on performing!).

So part of me thinks we should move to a different area, but I don’t know where. Part of me thinks we should stay, because DD might be a good fit for, say CLSG and then we’re well placed where we are. I don’t want her to have a long commute to secondary, but can’t guarantee that wherever we are.

WWYD—stay in Islington or find another area? And any suggestions of schools to look at or places to move to welcome.

I think if you can afford private for secondary then stay where you are. You'd have several choices of selective and less selective independent schools from Islington and the costs of moving with stamp duty etc would be high. I don't think the state secondary school situation in London is very different in other Boroughs so it would be a gamble moving.

Thanks MrsPatmore. We definitely need to move house though anyway.

We definitely need to move house though anyway.

I suppose the question then is whether you can afford something bigger in Islington? (I.e. if you're considering private/ss grammar then your location is less relevant wrt secondary schools, no?)

We can afford a slightly bigger house in Islington, with only the one DC. DH considers that worth it for the shorter commute to his work.

I'd prefer to send DD to a state school (on grounds of costs if nothing else). Private/grammar is on the table mostly because at the back of my mind is the possibility that we might have to move schools (I'm a bit scarred by my own experience) and therefore all options have to be open.

There are lots of good state schools in N London (there's a recent thread on here in fact which you may already have read - not sure how to link to it from my phone, sorry!). The problem is your DD is only 6 and schools can change quite a bit in 5 years.

I really don't know the secondaries in Islington itself, but perhaps the thing to do is to start researching your options (as you clearly are doing in fact), then work out which bit of the borough you need to be in to be in with a chance at more than one good school. So maybe that's near the Camden border or the Haringey one, or just near particular Islington schools themselves.

Catchment areas are a notoriously inexact science - and again can change massively in 5 years as schools fluctuate in popularity - but you may find the London Schools Atlas (this one I can link to!) useful as a ready reckoner.

I hate to say this but anecdotal evidence suggests you are at an advantage with a girl, there are more girls' schools than boys' and they tend to be better-regarded.

At risk of stating the obvious, take personal opinions on Mumsnet with a pinch of salt. Seek out organisations like Meet the Parents and talk to other parents. There is no substitute for visiting a school but tbh I would usually say year 2/3 is a bit young to start! I don't think you have anything to fear in general from the non-selective state sector in N London.

When you say transport for work, does it have to be the tube?

Where do you need to get to?

Loads of great secondaries all over London, and in areas with cheaper housing than Islington, but no point suggesting them if they don’t suit you travel needs.

Being in Islington means you can apply for Dame Alice Owens in Potters Bar. I know nothing of logistics but think 20 places are available.

Camden school for girls is supposed to be great . What about near there?

CSG notoriously has one of the most expensive secondary catchments in London, and one of the smallest. It's a terrific school but so are others.

Another vote for CSG.

Hi OP, as others have said, lots of good secondary options for Islington residents - more for girls than boys. And if you do have the budget for private, that broadens your options. I’ve just been through the applications process for DD1 so PM me if you have specific queries. We looked at a big spectrum of state options (selective and comprehensive) and many private schools so v happy to share my thoughts. However, as others have said, a huge amount can change in 5 years

If I were you OP I'd look at state secondaries in your preferred areas, find one with a consistently good record and aim to buy very, very close to there. Yes, schools change over time but a school that has been good for decades and is established in the community offers some degree of certainty. And possibly save for secondary fees as a backup. Then when the time comes to apply look at your nearby school, your DD's academic aptitude, your finances, visit a few other state/private options and make a decision.

This is what we've done(ish), but in south London. DD is very young but I was adamant that we had good primary and secondary state options nearby so that we weren't forced to move for schools, or pay for them if our circumstances change. Obviously our family may grow/needs may change but there are two outstanding primaries within 200m and an outstanding high school on the next street, which takes the pressure off a bit.

Camden has historically had better state schools than Islington so might be worth looking at. If you decide against state schools, a less pressured (and easier to get into) private school is Forest, a bit further out but quite a few travel from Islington and there are school buses from Highbury. You really need to have a good look around at school options and decide what you would like to aim for. Luckily you have plenty of time to do this.

Looking at your needs, Alexandra Park School seems to be a perfect match. It's one of the best secondary schools in London, you can afford houses within catchment and Bounds Green Station is nearby.

Sorry for late reply, lot of good suggestions I’m still working through.

Zinnia - found the thread, thanks.

HotpotLawyer - it would help to be near the Tube. I’m a freelancer whose current main employer is near a Victoria Line station. But have to travel to other areas too. Most of my friends are in North or East London so ideally would like to stay around there.

Petronellas - have heard of Dame Alice Owens but worry it might be limiting socially for DD to go there, as I can’t ever drive her to a birthday party, for instance. Plus 20 places not a lot.

I'd heard Camden School for Girls had a tiny catchment and figured we couldn't buy close enough to be sure.

Looking up some of these schools makes me realise that my heart is in Islington. But a quick chat with DH reveals he'd rather avoid private and faith schools (he's OK with grammar and girls' schools). Sigh.

Re Owens, I don't think it would be limiting socially, as if there's a party in Herts, a local parent can just pick up if necessary. However, it is very difficult to get into.

Camden is super random because of its banding system. We're well into Islington and got offered a place (fairly late on, July I think) having been something like 8th on the waiting list for that band (equivalent to be 32nd on the waiting list over all).

Dd was band A and we live considerably further than the last offer distance given on the website and the girl who eventually took the place lived further towards Upper Street still.

In other words, it's complicated.

I recently had to drive to Potters Bar, late at night. Man it's a long way.

CSG actively discourages applications from girls who live more than a mile from the school. Bear in mind too that although the school itself has been consistently good for many years, and barring a disaster of epic proportions will continue to be so for years to come, the actual admissions arrangements can change at any time. The current system has been in place for a while but there's no guarantee it still will be in 5 years' time which is when you will need to apply AngryAngie.

Which is why I would avoid putting all your eggs in any one basket if you can. Also FWIW re Alexandra Park, there is a poster on the secondary admissions boards who is in agonies because she lives less than half a mile from APS but last year her neighbour still didn't get a place, despite it being their nearest school, so popular has it become. That catchment is now even smaller than CSG's!

If you can avoid moving house until your DD is in year 4 or 5, you will have a much clearer idea of which school you like - and which will suit her - best, and can choose your area accordingly. As other posters have said (including me!) there is a stupid premium on properties in some catchments though.

For girls, CSG and Parly are both v v popular and well regarded at the moment. Elizabeth Garrett Anderson too, if you're near enough. And then Mary Magdalene is super-popular as well (church school but not faith school).

I don't understand why you'd rule out Muswell Hill on transport grounds - it's a short bus ride to the tube/train, and schools there just have much more space.

Fluandseptember - You’re right about Muswell Hill, when I looked at the area I was thinking about Fortismere, which wouldn’t work for us, not Alexandra Park. But I may have missed my moment, as we need a primary school now and the website of Rhodes Avenue says there’s hardly any movement in its student body. And getting near enough APS would involve putting all our eggs into that one basket, surely?

Also, what does it mean to be a church school but not a faith school?

Zinnia - yes I take your point about the timing and systems changing. However, our quality of life is not great in the place we are living and I can’t stick it out for another couple of years.

Tufnell Park? Could you afford to move near there for Acland Burghley/Parliament Hill or William Ellis? Primary school places are tough to come by at reception level round there but things move a bit further up the school.

if your dd is 6 (yr1?), then places will come up at primary schools - it's a low birth rate year group, and across boroughs there are lots of spare places. I wd ring the primaries and ask specific questions - the change has been really sudden and surprising for a lot of schools.

Faith schools teach the faith they subscribe to - Catholic, Jewish etc. C of E Schools don't do this: they were set up to educate the local community, and so there's church involvement (and money, which is significant). Religion is celebrated: all religions, not just C of E.

The primaries in NW5 are fantastic, and as Fluandseptember says there are spaces in Y1/2 cohorts all over as it's the start of the dip in birth rate. However CofE schools do vary quite a bit in terms of how "churchy" they are so you might need to get a feel for that school by school.

However there are lots of terrific non-faith schools (and I include CofE in that term) at both primary and secondary so it's not a huge problem.