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Y7 English help - P.E.E method

23 replies

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 13:18

Hi

Just wondered if there were any specific sites out there that ds can practise PEE paragraphs.

He's recently had tests at school and didn't perform very well in this area.

Any tips would be most welcome from teachers or parents who understand far more than me.

Thanks in advance.

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honorariam · 17/02/2019 13:24

English teacher here. I'm afraid I'm not going to be overly helpful: PEE is a terrible way of teaching children to write which just ensures that they are restricted to a paragraph structure and cannot fully express their ideas.

He'd be far better off not using it.

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 13:42

Thanks Honorariam

It was a test where they had to use the point, evidence, explain method from a small extract of a book based on a couple of questions. He was distraught when he only achieved 2/8 on one of the questions and 3/8 on the other.

English is one of his stronger subjects and this has totally knocked his confidence (this we are working on, so he doesn't get this upset over tests).

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MistakenHoliday · 17/02/2019 13:47

I was coming on to say the same as Honorariam! It sounds like he's doing GCSE reading questions if he's being marked out of 8. Which paper is it? What do the questions look like? To be honest, if he's using PEE, he's not likely to get much further than 3/4 out of 8 anyway even with the best will in the world.

MistakenHoliday · 17/02/2019 13:48

Oh blimey, I've just seen he's in Y7! It still sounds like a GCE style question though, given the marks.

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 13:50

I'll dig out his book Mistaken.

They are currently reading My sister lives on a mantlepiece.

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Rufus27 · 17/02/2019 13:55

Another English teacher here. I agree with the previous poster who said PEE can be very restrictive, especially with more able students. That said, it's sometimes useful for younger, less able students or those who simply prefer a set structure which is why some schools still use it.

We use it in lower school, though tend to use PETER instead: point, evidence, technique used and effect on reader.

Basically, what your son needs to do is make a POINT related to the question he's answering; give carefully chosen EVIDENCE (a quote) to back up this point; EXPLAIN who his evidence works (how it proves the point made initially and answers the question) trying to focus on a specific word within the evidence (quote) and the impact that word has on the reader.

It's important not to repeat himself and not to generalise (so avoid statements like 'this has a big effect on the reader').

Compare these three answers to see what I mean:

PUPIL 1 = He thinks they are scary.

PUPIL 2 = The writer thinks the Martians are scary: ‘Strange creatures’.

PUPIL 3 = The writer thinks the Martians are frightening: ‘Strange, swift creatures’. The first adjective ‘strange’ shows they are different and would have shocked the narrator at first.He also notices how fast they move: ‘swift’. The second adjective emphasises its speed and the fact it could easily overpower the humans. This is alliterated to add an increased sense of danger. The narrator would have found the creatures incredibly threatening.

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 14:03

Just checked. He managed 3/8 on both questions.

Thank you Rufus. I’ll show this to Ds. That’s very helpful Smile

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honorariam · 17/02/2019 14:07

Can you find the questions for us?

TeenTimesTwo · 17/02/2019 14:10

I'm definitely not an English teacher, but both my DDs struggled with including detail in answers and have found it helpful.

We have practiced PEE (which is also useful for e.g. history) by taking something DD knows well.

e.g.

Who is a better wizard, Harry or Hermione?

para 1:
Harry is a better wizard because he has more natural talent. For example the first time her got on a broomstick he was able to fly confidently. This shows that for a talented wizard some things just come naturally, it doesn't have to be taught. Another example of natural talent is how in goblet of fire he survives Voldemort - Harry has inner magic that he doesn't understand.

para2: Hermione is a better wizard than Harry because she learns spells through reading, and masters them. For example despite her not wearing glasses she knows the spell 'occulus reparo' to repair Harry's glasses. This shows she puts real effort into becoming an excellent witch....

We have also done things like 'Why I should be allowed a pet'.

We have done things starting each sentence on a new line, with PEE written out in preparation.

I am sure all the English teachers are correct that it stifles more able writers, but to get over the hump of not expanding answers I think it has its place.

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 14:10

One of the questions was:-

How does Sunya create tension and excitement in extract 1.

Ds answered (this is word for word from his book)

Point: Sunya is trying to create suspense.
Evidence: The quote “I heard this tap tap tap on my window and I thought it was a branch in the wind. It didn’t stop when the wind died down.
Explanation: This would create suspense because if you hear a tapping on your window and there are trees by your house, you would assume it was a branch, but, with no wind, it could’ve been something that had climbed up the tree.

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honorariam · 17/02/2019 14:13

Thing is @TeenTimesTwo PEE isn't often used in schools in that way...it's more to remind students to include quotational references to the text. They then have to explain those quotations in the final part of their answer. That's why it's restrictive.

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 14:15

Another

How does Jamie feel in extract 2

Ds answer:-

Point: Jamie feels extremely excluded.
Evidence: The quote “I lay down nearby and pretended to sunbathe and hoped that one of the boys would call me over”.
Explanation: It suggests that Jamie hopes to play football with the boys and he doesn’t want to be intrusive and asks to play, he’d rather be chosen to play.

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TeenTimesTwo · 17/02/2019 14:16

honor I am sure you are right. This is why DD2 has an English tutor. Smile

However practicing PEE has helped DD for Geography & History where quoting from the text is less of an issue.

honorariam · 17/02/2019 14:18

Okay @SweetMarmalade one of the issues is that the quotation isn't integrated, which is an issue with the PEE structure. Changing that to: 'character name claims that 'I heard this tap tap tap on my window...' which suggest that... Sunya's use of onomatopoeia builds a sense of tension because...' would strengthen the answer.

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 14:22

Thanks TeenTT and Honorarium.

This gives me something to work on and understand myself.

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Secretlifeofme · 17/02/2019 14:28

English teacher here too. He is also doing something that a lot of younger students do, which is to explain the quotation in terms of what the character is feeling or thinking. He needs to try and focus more on the language of the quotation, for example 'the words'call me over' demonstrate Jamie's feeling of being inferior to the boys, since 'calling someone over' is usually something done by a teacher or figure of authority.'

SweetMarmalade · 17/02/2019 14:37

Thanks Secret.

I’m now getting a bigger picture of why his marks were so low.

Helps to know what I’m talking about so that I can help him.

Are there any useful online resources any of you can recommend?

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Rufus27 · 17/02/2019 15:05

I agree with all said above, especially that his focus needs to be more on the actual language used (writer’s choice of words). Also, in the first example you give, his initial point adds nothing as it’s almost just repeating the actual question. He’d have been better to start with something like: ‘the writer uses onomatopoeia to create a sense of danger’ - then add his quote - finally explain the effect of the ‘tap tap tap’ on the reader.

TeenTimesTwo · 17/02/2019 16:16

When discussing language, one thing that sometimes helps my DDs is to think 'what if a different word had been used?' This then helps them to understand the effect of the chosen word.

e.g. the waves crashing along the shore
versus
the waves were lapping along the shore

It helps you realise that the word 'crashing' has a sense of strength and violence Thant kind of thing.

ElizabethinherGermanGarden · 28/02/2019 07:39

It is not an indication of being 'bad' at English. If the tasks are what I think they are, they come from the AQA KS3 tests. Those tests are designed to function just like GCSEs and use the same question format and mark scheme as GCSE, just with more accessible texts. The skills they are testing are very different from those taught and assessed at KS2.

AQA have said that they would not usually expect the vast majority of year 7 pupils to get beyond level 1-2 of the mark scheme (that's up to 4 out of 8) and that the point of the tests is for pupils to track their progress over repeated tries at similar questions, looking at their marks creeping up over time.

My criticism of the whole process is that this is absolutely not clear to the pupils and results in children feeling like your son. Sounds as if he is on track with what the exam board would expect and actually doing pretty well.

Bimkom · 28/02/2019 15:58

Yes, well we have just had similar. Had a set of setting test for English in Year 8 and DD got 8/26 - ie 30% for her PPE question, which put her in set 3. She said it wasn't her best creative piece, as the picture was so difficult to make out and so difficult to spark anything (when I saw it, I knew immediately it was the Charles Bridge in Prague, in the gloom, but anyway) but even there she got 78% (and she does normally due better, although always loses marks for SPAG which was marked independently and particularly badly in this test at 7/12). DD has generally bopped between set 1 and set 2 and being put down to set 3 has really upset her.

Bimkom · 28/02/2019 16:02

*PEE question

Bimkom · 28/02/2019 16:04

But given they do the setting simply on rank in these setting tests, that means that two whole classes worth did better than she did.

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