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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Which secondary would you choose?

28 replies

Hedgyhoggy · 16/02/2019 23:49

Ds (12) is currently in his last year of middle school and was due to start at the high school in a rural market town. However, I am having serious doubts about our choice!!! Our opinion of this school was just ‘ok’ when we looked around, GCSE results are 27% 5 to 9. We went ahead and applied as ds said he would like to apply to JCB academy for yr 10 because he is interested in engineering. But I’ve come to realise that this is no longer an option as he has 2 siblings one recently in special school who won’t use transport and I would be doing an impossible amount of driving. There is another option. It’s an other market town but in another county which we’ve looked around and I really like. Seems to have high expectations and good behaviour, mutual respect between pupils and teachers and gcse results (9 to 5) of 57%, great reports from kids and parents who already attend. It does have some practical issues of getting him there but we could work it out. But ds is not wanting to consider it. I know where I would prefer him to go but at the same time don’t know how much pressure to put on him and don’t want to knock his confidence. He’s done really well at middle school, he’s a lovely lad, has flight path predictions of 7, in all the school sports team, prefect etc Current school is fab at celebrating his successes but he does lack confidence. Sorry this is so long!! Just any thoughts would be appreciated as its all constantly whirring around my head!! Thanks

OP posts:
Zinnia · 17/02/2019 00:31

There are a number of variables here, but a couple of thoughts occur straight away (and forgive me if it's stating the obvious):

  1. Would he definitely get a place at the school you like?
  2. Has he been there to visit? Or is he refusing even to do that?

Ultimately - and this will be an unpopular opinion in some quarters - it's for you as the parent to make the decision about schooling. Of course you'd like him to be happy with the choice but the responsibility lies with you. If you think it's the right school for him, and he has a good chance of securing a place, you'll need to weather the storm and do the best thing for him in the long term. I totally sympathise with your dilemma though, we all want our kids to be happy about the move. Good luck!

Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 07:25

Yea there is a place and yes he’s been to look around. I think he was over awed as it is a considerably larger school and he’s ‘comfortable’ in his present school with a nice group of friends. I went to a very academic, competitive school a distance from where I lived and felt isolated. I think it’s for this reason that I’m struggling with a decision. I know all the facts point to him going to this other school, but I just wish he was on board.

OP posts:
Margot33 · 17/02/2019 07:37

I would send him to the school that he chose. I take it, it's local enough for him to get to independently? Are his friends going to that school too?

Hassled · 17/02/2019 07:56

27% 5 to 9 is a really pretty awful figure - what was the last Ofsted like? The report will be on the school's website. If there is any alternative to that I'd take it - and yes, while you don't want your DS to be miserable now, he's certainly going to be miserable in a school where he can't do well.
And all of my DCs ended Y7 with a completely different set of friends to the primary friends they'd started the year with - it's one of those things that seems incredibly important in Y6 but actually they tend to find new friendship groups really quickly.

errorofjudgement · 17/02/2019 08:09

If your DS wants to study engineering then he needs to be in the school that can best help him to achieve the high grades that universities are looking for.
I would want to understand why the local school has such poor results, are there lots of children needing more support and skewing the results? Or is it a pretty average group but not not achieving the exam success?
If the latter then definitely look at your other options instead.

Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 08:28

The ofsted reports for both schools are good. The school with 27% 9 to 5 has a high proportion of disadvantaged kids and ofsted generally report that value added is good. The school I am considering has 57% 9 to 5 but ofsted report that disadvantaged do not make adequate progress. So basically you could conclude that it’s pupilsare more advantaged so they are therefore more likely to get better grades. What I can’t get my head around is why a small rural market town has such low grades. I just dont see it as that disadvantaged for ofsted to basically excuse its poor results.

OP posts:
Oblomov19 · 17/02/2019 08:48

Goodness. I agree with hassled. 27% is really poor.
This just reminds me of how things are different here. All the state schools here are good. 87% pass rate. 50% 7-9.
Sorry that your choices are so poor! Shock

Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 08:58

You say middle school. Ushering an area with the Middle School System so he would enter high school in year 9 or do you mean junior school?

I think I’m in the same county as you but the other end. Our local high school was (still is) appalling. The one where it’s finally been taken away from the Academy Trust.

We sent ds to Nuls for years 7 & 8 - they get great results but for ds it was a total disaster and we moved him at the end of year 8. Pastoral & SEN support was dire. Results are not everything. Saying that I still think he was better off there than our other option.

He’s now in a school with the middle school system and doing ok.

JCB is one of the only successful UTC’si beleive they have students travelling from far and wide. Would he be able to get public transport or a school bus if he went there in Year 10?

What are your other options like?

Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 09:07

Hi Conefromaway, you might have a bit of an understanding for my predicament. I went to Nuls did not enjoy though I did well , but it’s really put me off Private school. Our catchment area is Leek, but we live out in the moorlands. Ds is yr 8 so last year in middle school. He should be going to Leek High school but I’d like him to go over into Derbyshire to Lady Manners in Bakewell. If he went to JCB I would have to get him to the bus stop in Leek for 7.20 and then pick up (varies) at 6. A lot of travelling for him and a lot of hanging around or driving backwards and forwards for me and his siblings, one of which has special needs and can be very challenging. Bakewell is a secondary school which is an other consideration as he will be joining them when they have been established 3 years.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 09:15

Ds is now at B (another Moorlands town). Have you considered there? Lots of shenanigans at nuls recently. Ds had two years of hell there.

The one thing I will say about high schools with the middle school is that they are often disadvantaged if they have any poor feeder middle schools. It stands to reason they only have 3 years with the kids instead of 5. At ds’s school I notice a difference I. General between the achievement of those who have come from each of the feeder middle schools.

Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 09:21

What sold B to us was when we went to look around how they spoke to ds and how they really seem to care. It was a culture shock after nuls and their fantastic facilities and music/drama departments but they really care about how to get the best from him as an individual.

Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 09:27

I’m guessing you are discounting En... due to its ovesubscription. (My nephew and niece are there)

Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 09:30

I really like his middle school. For him (top sets, well behaved, in all the sports teams) it’s been good. He’s grown in confidence as to put it bluntly he’s one of the higher achievers. If you mean the school I think you mean then I know it’s marginally better but the downside is the fact he won’t have his nice group of friends. I don’t know how much he will gain from that move or to the other schools in the area which are a little better by comparison.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 09:32

Yes En oversubscribed, nephew goes too Smile

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 09:37

I think one thing you also have to consider is that your town isn’t disadvantaged in the way that some of the stoke towns are but I know Leek loses a lot of the more affluent kids to Nuls & Kings Macc.

I don’t know a huge amount about Derbyshire schools. I used to work with a few kids from Buxton but the whole area is more affluent as a whole.

The thing that I do pick up on is that you felt Leek was just ok. What’s Westwood like these days?

Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 09:39

I was a secondary school teacher which you’d think would make the decision easier Grin but that was predominantly in Macc where results are a lot higher. I work in Special needs now so even though I know lots of school are kind and caring to a point I also know how kids can be let down when they really need it. Which again skews my opinion of places.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 09:41

Westwood is better academically but poor pastoral support, issues of bullying, big issues with the feeder school so I’m discounting it

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 09:42

I used to work in Macc (& Congleton). Totally different school culture.

What are progress scores like for high achievers. At our catchment (UAK) results were 27 % too but high achievers progress was really low.

Original poster
Hedgyhoggy · 17/02/2019 09:44

Thanks for replying comefrom

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 09:48

No problem. I think a lot of people from other areas who are used to all schools being good with much higher results don’t realise what it’s like here.

Believability · 17/02/2019 09:50

I’m sorry but there is no way on this earth I would send my child to a school which has 27% 9-5 if there’s another option.

Whilst I appreciate they make good progress with disadvantaged and low achievers, with all due respect, your son isn’t a low achiever. You need him somewhere which is teaching properly and consistently to level 9 and with a reasonable like minded cohort. 75% of children are not getting the level 5’s, to me that suggests that the top set will actually be fairly mixed ability and not the kind of top sets you get in a higher achieving school.

I wouldn’t be blown away by 58% or wherever it is but it’s more than double the number of children getting to the level. You need a decent core of hard working achieving children as they do need a good number of peers to feed off

errorofjudgement · 17/02/2019 09:58

While the bigger school might appear off-putting, by its very nature there will be more students working at your DS’ level so it’s more likely that the top group will be all high achievers rather than more mixed ability.
Plus if your DS had been able to access the specialist UTC then he would've been leaving his current friends after a year anyway!
Unless any of them were going to the UTC? In which case perhaps you could look at lift shares to bring it back into the frame?

Believability · 17/02/2019 12:20

My kids are at a top comp. The top set is 7-9’s. You need your son at that level if he’s on a 7 flight path. You don’t need a top set which is 5-7 as the chances of them teaching to a 9 is low and his 7’s are more likely to become 6’s rather than 8’s.

Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 12:55

At the OP’s school high prior strainers progress pretty much as expected with an Attainment 8 score of 58.1.

But I have heard (from ds’s tutor who works in the area) that the school has issues.

Comefromaway · 17/02/2019 12:58

Lady Manners is 62.8 for higher achievers.

Ds’s school is 61.6