is it catastrophic not to take language GCSE?

[pixieprincessdude]

My daughter is choosing her options (or pathways as they are now quaintly referred) and wants to drop French. Is this going to totally ruin her life as she wont have the holy grail of the EBac? Which Uni's actually demand it? She has a level of dyslexia so reading and writing in English is a challenge for her and I totally sympathise with her not wanting to misspell in another language too - that said she's bright and may well want to study to a higher level (she wants to be a child psychologist or play worker which means she'll need a masters) and I don't want to kill her choices. She would like to replace it with RE which actually looks more relevant to her choices.

Interesting I started a similar thread earlier. DS1 is reasonbly bright but not keen to do German to Gcse. Its good to know that most HE establishments dont require it. I was hopeless at languages and I hoped that DS1 wouldnt follow in my steps... On the other hand I want him to do subjects he really enjoys and hopefully do well at.

DD is also dyslexic and ended up dropping her MFL half way through Yr 10 as it was obvious she was going to fail with style. She'd been doing ok until then but the leap from Yr 9 to 10 was a lot and her dyslexia became more apparant.

She'c now in Yr 13 and has 4 unconditional uni offers so it hasn't held her back. Even her HOY said it was pointless for her and that Ebacc was pointless.

Unless she's taking a language at A level nobody cares.

This is how my mum got me t take chemistry at A Level 😑🙄'you won't get into uni without a science'.

Yes I will considering I did English and got in with a U in bloody chemistry.

Neither of my 2 DS's took a language. One is currently at Uni and the other taking A levels in 6th form. In fact a lot of employers have not even heard of the English Baccalaureate!

My older 2 picked a language GCSE but my youngest is dropping German. He's dyslexic and finds it hard enough right now.

Charming Tits

UCL have relaxed their entry reqs. They used to be stricter.

The Ebacc doesn't mean anything. Nor does having a modern language unless she actually wants to carry on with it to a level. No matter how much a school pushes you, if you don't want to do it, don't. you definitely don't need it. Don't forget ebacc stats are published and the school will be worried they look bad (which is ridiculous as it's a silly statistic anyway)

The new Languages GCSE is impossibly difficult with so much context and exam technique to learn. I teach the bloody thing and at this point I'd discourage my own child from doing it.

UCL have relaxed their entry reqs. They used to be stricter.

When, and in what way? When (in, say, the last thirty years) was it stricter than “GCSE MFL or do a first year module”?

It prob won’t impact which uni they can go to.
But look at this issue as part of a broader one. An academic child wanting an academic path needs a range of academic subjects at GCSE. So fine not to a language if most of the other choices are academic. Not so fine to have no language, no humanity, almost all practical or arts based subjects. And I’m not knocking practical and arts. Having something in your mix from these is a v good idea and music is an academic subject. But think ahead to uni applications and if you want a top course you need a good range of academic GCSEs. So be flexible on language IF rest is looking right. Don’t let the whole curriculum swing away from academic.

Don't do it unless she wants to. My DD's textiles GCSE counted as much as her History one when she applied to do medicine.

My dd found Spanish easier than French. She is dyslexic. We had 1:1 tutoring for her for languages for I think about 12 or 18 months before GCSE. This really boosted her confidence and she went from feeling really stressed about languages to enjoying them as a result of this. She got grade As in both Spanish and French. I was really worried about her doing 2 languages and before the tutoring I definitely wanted her to drop Spanish (over ruled by dh and dd!). Dd is really pleased that she didn't.

Tutoring might be worth a try if that is an option.

I am also a parent of a dc with dyslexia, the SEN teacher advised her not to take french GCSE as its a very difficult language for many people with dyslexia. For my dd she found the spelling side almost impossible. She took mandarin instead which is very hard and she is not a natural with languages but she still finds it better than French! Could she try a different language? I don't think not doing a language GCSE will have an affect on her choices although in my time, you needed a language at GCSE if you wanted to do law at certain Universities.

it's useful, but not essential. Some universities used to ask for it, but then some used to ask for Latin! Not anymore, I don't think.

This is a really useful thread. We are having just this dilemma. I feel much more confident about our decision to let dyslexic DD drop language option at GCSE.

You do not need a language to do anything at any university. You don't. Really. It's true. Things have changed !

My DS 15 isn't doing a language, he's doing 3 year GCSE'S, History, Geography, Computer Science & Drama for his options. Despite being at a specialist language academy he didn't want to study a language & nobody tried to force him to when he chose his options.

Not catastrophic. Just sad. We don't value languages, do we

Nope. In any other country this wouldn't be a realistic option - it would be a given that you would study a foreign language (probably English, but certainly an MFL) to at least 16. And I am sure they have kids with SEN too but they get around it, because they think it is important.

I am very happy ds is doing Spanish A level, although I think his school was rubbish for only offering one GCSE language (although they offer 3, the kids can only choose one).

I don't think e-bacc is rubbish, I think it shows a decent spread of subjects.

Thanks so much for the really helpful comments. I totally agree that it’s really embarrassing the way we approach languages in this country. We start far too late. I do agree with DD that a GCSE isn’t the way to do it though as there is too much focus on detail and writing ( I got A’s in German and french and am still pretty rubbish). My son is only going to pass as he’s had a tutor since yr 10.
She’s requesting RE instead of her language so it’s down the the scheduling dept to see if it will happen.
Hopefully better marks in ‘the wrong’ subjects will work for her.

I think the way languages were taught up until the recent change in the GCSE syllabus was abysmal. DS only scraped a C (his lowest GCSE grade) and failed the listening comprehension completely. His cousin did better but still did appallingly in the same part of the test (although different language). Looking at how DD is learning the same language now, already in Yr 8 I feel she has a much better grasp of the fundamentals (and their study incorporates lots of listening to native speakers which is super helpful).

Interestingly, when DS did his GCSEs about 82% of his school cohort got the EBACC whereas recently I've noticed the number achieving it has almost halved. Maybe many very bright children just don't want to take a punt on a subject that might give them an average rather than stellar grade.

When DD2 was that age, learning support told her to leave learning a language until 5th or 6th year, once she had stopped growing, and it would come more easily to her. She did as advised and took Spanish in 6th year. She scraped a pass and did it in first year of uni as one of her modules. It is good to have a second language, but when you are dyslexic, it is very difficult. She can always pick up a language when she's a bit older.

My son is dyslexic and gave up French in year 10. The school were very unhappy about it and I really had to make a fuss. I pointed out that he’d be doing french since year 2 and still couldn’t hold a conversation.

The huge benefit for him was that he then had two extra free periods in the week to work on other subjects. I think dyslexics have to work harder generally so that was great for him. Maybe one day he can learn a language in his own time for fun, but for now I feel writing well in English and mastering maths and science is more important.

My feeling is it is pointless learning it if you are not going to achieve competency. In my son’s case he is highly unlikely to be studying a degree where French is important.

TBH I think it's a bit of a waste to study a language in the UK as the standard of attainment is awful. Might as well put the time into a subject that isn't under-resourced and neglected. Study a language in their own time outside of school if they want to learn to speak it.