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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

This I wish I had known about starting a thread on things you wish you had known about the 11+ process

39 replies

Goposie · 05/02/2019 20:18

Just don’t!

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 06/02/2019 08:14

One good thing about the 11+ Forum- it makes Mumsnet look positively sane..........

BluthsFrozenBananas · 06/02/2019 08:17

I don’t know Bert, have you read some of the London independent 11 plus threads on here?

FanDabbyFloozy · 06/02/2019 09:54

I agree that the elevenplusforum has gone insane. Questions about how to travel to QE Boys/KEGS/Tiffin from Heathrow/Watford/Birmingham etc.
The lengths some parents go to is bordering on abuse here but in some cultures is respected - multiple tutors, hours of prep per day, 15+ papers a week!! I kid you not.
We've all met them..

Tinty · 06/02/2019 12:45

Find out what the local test is CEM/GL etc. Buy some books from WHSmiths or the internet, do a bit of practise with them in the Summer before the test. Read lots with your child.

Find them another good school to go to if they don't pass the 11 plus and keep it casual, don't make a big deal of it.

If you tutor for years and then your DC don't pass then they may be upset. Be realistic, ask your DC's school teachers if they feel they are able to pass if lucky on the day without too much work.

Is your area 20 - 25% of class going to Grammar School in previous years or just 1 or 2 DC and some years none?

Oh and yes you are right Grammar School 11 plus threads are craaaazy Grin.

Tinty · 06/02/2019 12:48

@Goposie

How old is your DC? If year 4 or younger do lots of reading and puzzles and fun maths with them before you get into the 11 plus fun.

JaneHare · 06/02/2019 13:04

One good thing about the 11+ Forum- it makes Mumsnet look positively sane

Very true!

I'd ban grammars, public/private schools if I were Leader of a Sane UK.

FootprintsinSand · 06/02/2019 14:02

Goposie - Smile. So so true!!!!

My advice to you is, yes the numbers applying are getting bigger and it does seem to be getting more competitive but it is absolutely possible to get in!

The most important thing is that this is not just the parents dream but the child wants to give it a go too. Obviously, they need to be of the right level if trying for a selective Independent or Grammar school - top sets, working at a higher level, good CAT scores etc...
Also, don't listen to anyone who tells you their child got in with no work at all! Sending a child into a test with no preparation at all is doing them a complete disservice, you wouldn't go into a job interview without doing some basic preparation so why would you send a child in with no experience at all! I don't believe in over tutoring however, I do believe in Practice papers. I started about 5 months in advance. A bright child has the foundation, its giving them the tools to build on top of that! Quite simply its Timing/speed, accuracy, understanding the different formats of papers you could be provided with (especially MC), knowing how and when to Stop and Move on etc... theses are all techniques that a child should be walking in with. The way to learn these is not necessarily with a tutor but at home in a quiet room!

Everyone has their own experiences and reasons for applying to the different schools! DO NOT get involved with the Independent vs Grammar vs Comp school debates...… I know controversial Wink. Do what's right for your child so that you never live with the 'I should have tried' guilt! Also, why shouldn't a parent who is not religious so doesn't have that as an excellent option try for a Grammar school if possible. Respect each others choices.

On test dates the queues are huge! Just remember, for some parents they have applied for 5 or 6 (possibly more) independent schools, Grammar schools are free so the numbers will be huge with the majority of those from independent there too, from such long distances they wont get a place anyway 9Grammar sch tourists), some as I have heard for a few years now are there to see where there child 'sits'/''how they do' … I mean what's that all about!!!! So don't let this put you off or scare you. I've heard one parent on mumsnet bemoaning having to wait out in the rain with hundreds (or was it millions Wink ) of others unlike the private school where she had paid for the privilege to sit the exam and it was all wonderful ...what did they expect!!! The experiences are different so be pragmatic. Just take a deep breath and be super positive around your child before they walk in. Even if its raining!

Just remember Private schools are a Business. Do take off those rose tinted glasses when walking round and ask the same questions you would of any school. The sporting facilities are amazing in some we looked at but if your child loves sport but isn't fantastic at it … make sure there's not the stigma of your in the squad or not good enough! Conversely with Grammar schools, do they encourage sport.

Do check the format of each school exam you are interested in. GL vs CEM. So you get the right papers. Also, many schools do not teach NVR including the preps attached to senior schools. If you have a choice of schools to try for and only 1 requires NVR should you really be focusing on that or even that school if you can try for others? Its a matter of priority.

Remember a child needs to 'take a break' too. Go swimming, bike rides a long walk etc.... Small treats and promises like 'once you've completed these 2 papers, lets go and watch a film, your choice'. Also, remember if you've promised your child its only for a short period of hard work then make sure you mean it! Its a sad fact some parents keep their child studying once they've even got into their chosen schools (buts that's another conversation)!

So be prepared, be positive and always, always have a backup!
Best of luck.

Greenleave · 06/02/2019 14:26

Wow, what a great post FootprintsinSand, it has everything I wanted to say and more.

Our problem was NVR, we knew it was her weakness and she needs to practise on it however she refused flat. As we promised her that she takes control of schools she’d like to sit and school choices if there was one so we didnt try much in convincing her on it. Our group tutor was only focusing on grammar schools which dont have NVR so that doesnt help either. It might turn out to be a good thing as she had more time for the core subjects. Among the schools there were G&L(which was a surprise to us) and LEH which have NVR. We are waiting to hear final results hopefully in 10 days or so. Now I am thinking she mentioned that at LEH interview she had the longest in comparison to every one which she was asked to do few 3D puzzle/games. Fortunately she does loads of it for fun at home so it turned out to be her favourite interview so far. That might not be reflected in the final results though as I understand eventually the exams are the most important decision factor.

PorkPatrol · 06/02/2019 22:48

Just to add my tuppenceworth to the contentious discussion, as an 11+ surviving parent of a state school child who will be starting at a super-selective grammar in September:

Get the basics right ie check and double check the format of the exam/s of your preferred schools ie GL vs CEM & research whether the exams include VR & NVR, for example

Check and double check the past paper offerings on the websites of your preferred schools so you/your child is familiar with the types of questions and formats of the question and answer sheets

Explain and practise multiple-choice format questions/answers with your child - this sounds ridiculously basic but this is not how tests/exams are usually presented in KS1 or KS2 in state primary schools

Don’t just assume that you can be hands-off if you are paying/trusting a tutor to do the donkey work for you. Most tutors are running businesses and it’s all about bums on seats for them; only you as the parent/s have a real emotional investment in whether your child makes the grade, or not. (Disclaimer here: I’m a totally lone parent on a very low income and I simply couldn’t afford to outsource the 11+ preparation to an external tutor, but I know, not just anecdotally, of parents who were stunned on results day that their guaranteed-top-10-place child didn’t meet the required standard for the exam). It’s a grind taking on the responsibility of helping your child prepare for the exam but then YOU know where the gaps in their learning are and how to help them plug those gaps. I guess I’m saying, fully own the process and be totally involved rather than assuming because you’re paying £50ph however many times a week, your kid is a shoo-in

Commit to regular (little and often) practice from the beginning of Y5, ensuring your child is fully up-to-speed on times tables (back-to-front, upside-down, inside-out, back-to-front, standing-on-their-head etc), is reading/being read to from an extensive list of classics, such as atom Sawyer/Huckleberry Finn/The Little Princess/The Secret Gardenanything by Joan Aiken etc etc (there’s a great reading list of suitable classics on the Elevenplus forum)

Drill down on your child’s reading comprehension (in state schools, in my experience, it’s all about the word count and very little regard is paid to a child’s ability to fully understand and dissect the content of a text

Improve your child’s vocabulary (and yours, too) by keeping a notebook on you at all times so you can write down - and later look up - any new words they/you encounter in their daily reading/everyday life

Make sure not to sacrifice normal family life at the altar of the 11+ - my child’s two (different areas) exams were in the September but we did the absolute bare minimum of work in the entire six-week school holiday as we still went away on our extended summer camping holiday (my view was that we’d all be really bitter if we’d sacrificed too much and my child hadn’t met the standard but if she hadn’t and we’d had a brilliant summer holiday, then at least we’d have a good excuse for her not passing - as well as fantastic memories!)

Keep your counsel and tell no one about your 11+ journey (see above threads for reference) and simply do not believe the folks who tell you they only wafted a past paper under their child’s nose the night before their exam. These are the same people who told you their child was sleeping through the night when they were a nanosecond old (they are liars).

Bond’s 10-minute test books are the dogs-whatsits

Take out an Amazon Prime membership so you can order the above (plus the other books you’ll need) for next day delivery

SwimmingJustKeepSwimming · 07/02/2019 04:47

For verbal reasoning we've so far worked through a gdp GL book and just started a Bonfd10min test book. Ive noticed some of the bond test questions are different (not specifically for GL?) Are they similar enoigh that they're working the same thought processes and pattern spotting/words etc or do I need to move onto something else?

SwimmingJustKeepSwimming · 07/02/2019 05:31

(I mean cgp not gdp!!)

Also. Just seens cgp do 10min tests for GL too. But those, along with the "practice books" series which we're using only go up to 10-11. Logically that doesnt seem the same as 11+...

SwimmingJustKeepSwimming · 07/02/2019 05:32

Or are they at the right standard to practice for the 11+ ?

SwimmingJustKeepSwimming · 07/02/2019 13:29

Ive had a lovely reply from cgp and their materials labelled 10-11 are their 11+ materials!!

I dont know whether to continue with the bond 10min book or move her on. I might use it for now while we move onto maths and then move back to GL specific materials.

Cedar03 · 07/02/2019 13:38

Definitely check that you have the correct exam board and know what the exam is going to contain.

If there is verbal and non verbal reasoning these will need to be taught in chunks of time and practised because schools don't teach these types of tests. A child who is unfamiliar with the style of test would be massively disadvantaged going into the test because you don't have much time to work it out. For DD I think the NVR was divided into chunks of 10 minutes and you couldn't go back after the 10 minutes to questions you haven't answered.

If it is multiple choice make sure they know how to fill in the answers. And how to make a reasonable guess if they don't know.

DD worked through some workbooks with her friends over the summer before the test. You don't necessarily need a tutor - we didn't. But it depends how much time you, as a parent, have to invest in doing it yourself. And how good your child is at listening to you. I think DD would have been more receptive to a tutor in some areas.

Make sure they know their tables inside out, that they know what mean, median, mode mean, and anything similar. That they know what an adjective is, noun, etc, etc, etc. Also read lots of books with them that have a good range of vocabulary and talk about the story - what might happen next, what did that part mean, etc.

Visit all the schools in your area and keep an open mind about them. Don't just judge based on rumour and hearsay.

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