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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

GCSE further maths

23 replies

BeneathTheBoughs · 31/01/2019 20:03

So ds mentioned in passing that his Y10 group are going to do a further maths GCSE on top of the normal one. It's never been mentioned before and I don't know which exam board. Not too keen on the idea of him doing yet another gcse, especially as he is v unlikely to choose further maths at A level but may choose maths A level.

For previous years, they've just done the one maths gcse but two in english (lang and lit). Given the choice, he'd rather do two maths and just one english but that isn't allowed. It seems odd to require them to do two maths whether they want to or not (same for the english).

So my first question is whether it is likely to be of benefit if just going on to do standard maths A level rather than further maths as well?

Also, is there some benefit to the school in them doing this, e.g. Is it to do with progress 8 tables? And, if so, will the school care what grade is achieved so long as they pass it? As they seem to be leaving it a bit late for starting it.

OP posts:

Dermymc · 31/01/2019 20:09

Depends on the exam board and exactly which qualification it is regarding prog 8. Highly likely it will count if they are putting a large group through. Its good A level prep even if he doesn't do further Maths A level.

English is a strange one P8 wise, pupils only have to do one (lit or lang) in theory. However most pupils and schools do both and the higher grade is double weighted in P8. Maths is also double weighted. Students usually do both because the idea is to prepare students for whatever they choose next. Some will need lit, for others lang will be more important. For timetabling reasons it would be nigh on impossible to withdraw students from one but not the other. They are usually taught simultaneously by the same teacher.

@noblegiraffe will probably have more info.

Etotheipiplus1equals0 · 31/01/2019 20:14

Further maths gcse is a great qualification. It’s probably the AQA level 2 certificate. Most of it crosses over with the harder gcse topics, especially algebra, and the other boys are great preparation for A level. We teach it only to the top set in year 11 with no extra lessons over the other groups, there really isn’t much content that is completely distinct from the gcse (differentiation and matrices are the main ones) but there are some tricky questions. I’m not sure if it counts to our progress 8 as it is no longer labelled as a GCSE. It’s certainly not done for that reason shyest, bit to stretch the most able.

TheFirstOHN · 31/01/2019 20:16

DS2 did the AQA Level 2 qualification in Further Maths at the end of Y11, along with Maths GCSE. It was taught within regular Maths lessons alongside Maths GCSE.

He says it helped a bit with the jump to Maths A-level (he is also doing Further Maths A-level).

But the main benefit was that he enjoyed the course. He got a high grade, which he can include in his university application (Physics, so subject is relevant).

There's also a separate Level 3 Additional Maths qualification, which I believe is harder.

Etotheipiplus1equals0 · 31/01/2019 20:16

Really should have checked that before posting. Other topics not boys and anyway not shyest! It used to be an IGCSE but was changed to a level 2 certificate a few years ago.

Oratory1 · 31/01/2019 20:28

DS also did the AQA certificate. Only started after mocks (feb of year 11) and he found it helped him a lot with the ‘normal’ maths and like TheFirst DS he enjoyed it. He would have got bored doing the same gcse questions over and over and it gave him a confidence boost being considered able to do it.

Original poster

BeneathTheBoughs · 31/01/2019 21:35

Thanks for the replies. I was worried it was too much extra to add in, but maybe it will motivate him a bit more. His main problem with maths at the moment is accuracy. Common for him to lose 25% of marks on really simple calculations but gets the more advanced parts correct. I think part of this is just lack of interest in schoolwork in general. He's not lazy. He'll do what's required but it just doesn't float his boat. Not yet, anyway. I live in hope...

OP posts:

BackforGood · 31/01/2019 23:45

Both my dds did it as an 'extra' - they had one hour a week, after school, by invite only.
They both found it helped them with their 'normal' maths GCSE as it seemed (from what they said) to clarify things about the GCSE for them.

Twinkletwinklestarsailor · 01/02/2019 08:29

My dd is doing further maths & wants to do maths A level but not further maths A level. We have been told that doing further maths
GCSE makes the first part of A level maths an easier step up, than if not done.

noblegiraffe · 01/02/2019 10:08

It’s of zero benefit to the school, it doesn’t count for progress 8 at all.

Before the new GCSE it was really good for potential A-Level maths students as it bridged the gap to A-Level and made it less of a shock. With the new GCSE it’s not so important in that regard, but it’s a lovely qualification, the questions are quite fun (IMO!) compared to GCSE. I’ve got kids in my Y11 class who got high 8s and 9s in their November mock who would be bored silly just going over GCSE stuff till June so they’ll be taking it. They’ve been taught most of the content already as it overlaps heavily with GCSE, it’s only now that I’m going to start explicitly teaching FM stuff that isn’t on GCSE, (mainly matrices, differentiation and trig equations).

Original poster

BeneathTheBoughs · 01/02/2019 11:00

Thanks. Assuming it's this particular qualification, is there a home study book that would be useful? He tends to panic if something unfamiliar is thrown at him and he's very quick to write himself off if something doesn't go well. He doesn't do well with the UKMT type stuff and it's hard to put my finger on it but, for example, he sometimes gets a mental block over things, maybe a confidence issue or just the way he processes things. For example, reading a simple clock face was very difficult for him when he was younger. He seemed to freeze and be unable to do it - this was at Y6 stage when he was comfortably achieving high mark in the Level 6 sats. The pattern continues now in that he gets makes errors on the simple stuff whilst managing the more complex concepts. Hence my worry about extra stuff now being added into the mix, but I guess he'll have to tackle new topics at A level anyway.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 01/02/2019 11:09

If it’s the AQA further maths GCSE then this textbook is great.

Original poster

BeneathTheBoughs · 01/02/2019 11:54

Thank you!

OP posts:

tammytoby · 01/02/2019 17:22

Our school offers Additional Maths (OCR) as an additional qualification as part of GCSEs. The top sets will find it fairly straightforward and it won't be much extra work to normal Maths.

tammytoby · 01/02/2019 17:23

I wonder why some schools offer Further Maths and others Additional Maths ?

LIZS · 01/02/2019 17:27

Dd did both!

Oratory1 · 01/02/2019 22:24

Op he s not dyslexic by any chance is he. Just that some things you describe sound very similar to my DS. Sounds like the aqua fm papers might suit him well though

Original poster

BeneathTheBoughs · 01/02/2019 23:01

I have considered this but he doesn't seem to meet all the criteria, so thought it's maybe more of a confidence/ anxiety issue. He does use a fairly large font in his ereader and takes longer to read than I do, but he enjoys reading and doesn't seem to have any problems with it as such. He does get anxious and panicked if he is in an unfamiliar situation, but is otherwise very sociable. School have never raised any issue, although he's pretty much off the radar.

OP posts:

User260486 · 03/02/2019 17:02

Could anyone please advise on how dufficult Edexcel Futher Pure Math IGCSE is? It does look as a significant step up with quite a few areas that are not covered in Math GSCe course. Any feedback about this qualification is very wellcome as we are trying to decide if it is worth taking it.

OnTheHop · 04/02/2019 08:05

DS found Further Maths very helpful in preparing for Maths A level.

The top set did it alongside the GCSE, in no extra lessons.

You know when people go on about Comprehensives concentrate on getting the middle grade students ‘over the line ‘ at the expense of top set students? Well adding Further Maths to the top set work is the kind of thing schools do to stretch and challenge able students and give them extra qualifications. In a Grammar the good Maths students would be doing Further Maths it similiar. This is how comps are not ‘one size fits all’ as commonly quoted!

Seeline · 04/02/2019 10:31

OP if your Ds is taking the AQA exam next year, he will be sitting a new syllabus from the one in hte book recommended by noble . I think a new edition has been published.
My DD also has hte CGP revision book which gives brief advice for each topic. You need the new 9-4 grading edition.

Original poster

BeneathTheBoughs · 04/02/2019 11:09

Thanks Seeline - I'm waiting to find out which actual qualification it is. If it's the AQA certificate, would you recommend getting the CGP books as well as the hodder education one?

OP posts:

Seeline · 04/02/2019 11:23

We haven't got the Hodder one, just cgp as my DS really liked them when he did GCSEs last year.
DD is working through an online resource provided by school ATM, so haven't needed a text book yet. Also most subject matter already dealt with in main GCSE course so not much new. We will see how things go!

noblegiraffe · 04/02/2019 21:29

I think there’s only a couple of things on the new spec not in the old one, the vast majority is the same.

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