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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary school tutoring especially for GCSE and A level

26 replies

Greenleave · 30/01/2019 14:07

We had a tutor(group tutor, once a week, started with 1 hour then 1.5hours in the last 6 weeks, with term and summer holiday breaks) for 11+. I am so happy now that the tutoring is over and still now when the exams are over I still feel she was benefited from it. Now I have heard from my friends that they hire tutors for their children for GCSE and A level, all these kids are extremely bright and in top grammar schools in London, they did ed with all 9 for GCSE. And they also said top Indies are worse, they are tutoring earlier. Is this true? Is teaching at these schools are not good enough? Are parents with young children like us are too naive and thought that top school could prepare for top result. For 11+ I could understand because the test is far ahead for state school children who follows national curriculum, they also have never taken any test in their life and state schools dont prepare them. Do you have a tutor for your secondary child then how long do you need it for and what is the usual (London) cost.

OP posts:
Kilash · 30/01/2019 16:44

The only people I know who had thier children tutored for GCSE and/or A level were those with kids who were struggling - e.g for a borderline Maths/English pass (GCSE) or for a very competetive university entrance (BMAT or Oxbridge aptitude tests). At my sons very average comprehensive, many children did very well with 8's and 9's at GCSE.

Foxy333 · 30/01/2019 17:11

Marking place...
DD HAS Mocks next week and is getting very stressed. Affecting whole of the family. She's very up and down, mostly down Hmm

FaultInMyStars · 30/01/2019 17:20

Maybe a tutor to help kids gets through English or maths GCSE if it doesn't come naturally to them, both subjects they obviously have to do. However, the idea of A-level tutoring is worrying - you've picked three subjects you have an aptitude for and still you need a tutor? How will you cope when you get to university and you're on your own? Where does it stop?

hpreptowers · 30/01/2019 19:31

I'm a teacher and I also tutor a lot of DC at private schools for GCSE and A level, as well as DC at grammar schools. FaultInMyStars I've recently been asked to tutor an undergraduate, so it appears it doesn't stop!

Greenleave · 30/01/2019 20:02

This fact is sad especially for Indie schools which the cost should have meant no additional top up is needed.

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crazycrofter · 30/01/2019 23:51

I’m pretty sure it’s not actually necessary - but if kids who’ve been tutored get top grades, people will assume it was because of the tutoring. They would probably have got those grades anyway!

It’s the same at 11plus. We were told you have to tutor, everyone does for at least a year etc. We didn’t and just did prep at home for a couple of months and it was fine - but because people only know of tutored kids getting in, they assume it’s necessary.

My dd is in year 10. So far we’ve not resorted to any tutoring!

JustRichmal · 31/01/2019 10:06

I do not have a tutor for dd, but do help dd with some subjects at home, though she mainly gets on with things herself. However, I do consider this tutoring, but realise not all parents have the time or ability to tutor. There is also quite a lot on the internet, eg Mr. Salles for English, which are a good addition to school lessons.

I see no problem with getting a tutor, if that is what you think will make a difference. Not all teachers are excellent and not all students are able to get to grips with all their GCSE topics or parents have the education they need to help.

Whether it is parents, the internet or tutors, quite a lot of students do have help through resources outside of the class teaching, but I would not say the majority have paid tutors.

RedSkyLastNight · 31/01/2019 13:01

I'm thinking of getting a tutor for my Y10 DS - but that's because he is really struggling in one particular subject and he says he doesn't understand the teacher at all. I wouldn't tutor to (say) turn a 7 into a 9, but I can absolutely see (based on friends' experiences, particularly in pushy London schools) that some people do.

Greenleave · 31/01/2019 13:29

For Local Comp I could understand, however even with top grammars and top Indies? And continuing during University? And it must be 1-2-1 tutor, meaning out of reach for many then how could low income parents cope?

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PlumCakeChica · 31/01/2019 13:39

We are in a highly successful leafy comp and I know parents do use tutors for gcse. One of my good friends is a local science tutor and she is very busy with children from the school.

I’m considering a maths tutor for dd, yr10, just to give her a boost. My dh and I are good mathematicians but she won’t listen to us.

Greenleave · 31/01/2019 14:02

I cant tutor my children( we work ridiculous hours plus travelling), I could understand that I have to hire a tutor for music, swimming etc. and possibly send them to private if I want top notch teaching. However still having a tutor for academic is beyond my belief, and it looks like I am extremely naive.

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Trampire · 31/01/2019 14:09

I have just hired a Maths tutor for my Y9 dd (Starr school).
However this is because she has had a temporary teacher for 3 months who is woeful and dd is missing out on lots. It's really to get her on track to start GCSEs. When her permanent teacher is back, we'll review it.

Most people I know don't use tutors. They are in a good state comptroller where many students go in to Russell Group unis.

My Dsis had to hire a few tutors for her DD's GCSE's (especially in Chemistry and Maths) and she was in private school. I'm not sure if the teaching was bad or dd just needed an extra boost.

Trampire · 31/01/2019 14:09

Starr = State.

ealingwestmum · 31/01/2019 14:25

Hi Green: wishing you all the best with your forthcoming choices!

I am going to give you my anecdotal (and therefore, limited) experience, but much of it concurs with above PPs...so many different reasons why people get additional support for their DC, irrespective of where they school.

My DD needed help last year. Like an above poster, her confidence was shot to bits on a subject: maths. Not because she wasn't good at it, though maybe has an arse about face way of learning, but her teacher was just too fast for her, didn't explain well enough, didn't go over wrong answers etc etc. She's in a school that last year over 50% of DC got a 9 in maths, so pace is fast. And she felt stupid against those that 'just got it'.

She kept avoiding the offer of outside help (I couldn't). Her teacher kept saying she didn't need any, all was fine. I eventually had to kick in and got a mentor (a sixth former support that her school provides when needed) and after 2 terms, she was solo again, back on track, declined a move up to top sets (because she didn't want a repeat of previous year) and is now comfortable, helped by a different teacher who she loves.

Was this intervention a tutor? Of course it was. Non-paid, but nevertheless the same result. It would be great if every school had great teachers that were able to adapt their style to individual students' needs, but reality is some just don't/can't. Had it not been maths, I would have helped her to understand you don't have to be an ace at everything. If there is rife tutoring throughout many subjects (exc maths/english) at her school, I don't know about it, and for those that are, then I am sure they have their reasons; though often these started well before entry at 11, where maybe the school wasn't the best match in the first place but they managed to prep their DC enough to get through.

The challenge I have is that parents always think this is solely the school's fault, that the school, somehow, is responsible for not reaching top sweep of grades, even more so if you are sending DC to stellar grammar/indies/comps. it does not seem to be ok anymore for there to be the grades from 8 (or worse, even 9) down?

We need to be careful what we wish for, as parents. By the very nature of choosing highly selective schools, the bar will always be high, and for some DC (and their parents), not achieving top grades is the be all. Not whether the school is a match, that would their DC really enjoy the 5 - 7 years there because of a bunch of other stuff the school does, how does it help young people be more rounded etc. And as more prospective parents coming into 11+; look at league tables alone and question why the marginal differences year on year (where a better guide could be to look at the leavers destinations/courses gained?)

Long way of me saying, there will always be the 'friends' telling you stuff. That some of it is true, some of it has reason, some of it is because there is a keeping up with the Jones and not accepting anything less that top (when they'd probably have gained top anyway without tutoring). Post GCSEs more independent thinking is necessary so if DC are still needing additional support at that stage, maybe a re-think of destination outcomes are necessary, but who knows the individual circumstances, really?

In summary, the very nature of top performing schools is going to have an underground of additional support, from those parents who feel their child's 90% is not good enough against Child B and C's 100%. And DC who will feel like that, irrespective of how much the school tells them it's ok, unless they have parents who also agree that it's ok...

Sorry, that was long! I've rolled in all your questions from other threads into one! And wish you all the best too...

Greenleave · 31/01/2019 14:36

Wow Ealing, I was blown away, I keep visiting mumsnet because of posters like you. Then the tutoring now doesn't sound sad or scary as before. Indeed I am in the middle of the selective process(interviewed at MiniEaling school this Saturday) and weighting state vs private option. I’d rather have parents telling the truth and sharing experience for us to learn rather than facing the “myth”. Wishing miniEaling the best for this year( GCSE isnt it?).

OP posts:
ealingwestmum · 31/01/2019 14:50

Aw, thank you Green! Next year is GCSEs...a little more breathing space ☺️

Tell your DD to enjoy her interviews. She has a lot to offer...

Somethingsmellsnice · 31/01/2019 15:34

The issue is if you have to tutor your child to within an inch of their life to get them into a selective they will also need tutoring to be able to keep up.

Most of the top (selective) independents/grammars do teach at an appropriate level to get top grades without tutoring. But if the child has been coached to get in why would anyone think they would naturally keep up without additional help too?

ChristopherTracy · 31/01/2019 15:39

Virtually all of my childrens peers are being tutored at a top selective grammar - it is endemic and why they get the results they do.

ZaZathecat · 31/01/2019 15:43

A close family member of mine tutors GCSE and A Level students. The vast majority are not those who need help to pass, they are usually very high achievers who want to get A* in everything (or is it the parents?..) and are currently 'only' predicted an A in the subject!

Notcontent · 31/01/2019 19:52

I agree that sometimes it’s the very bright kids who get tutoring because they want an extra boost, not because they are struggling. My year 8 daughter recently had a few tutoring sessions in a subject I could not help her with (there was no such thing in my time...) and we wanted to avoid pre assessment stress.

LoniceraJaponica · 01/02/2019 08:56

“My DD needed help last year. Like an above poster, her confidence was shot to bits on a subject: maths. Not because she wasn't good at it, though maybe has an arse about face way of learning, but her teacher was just too fast for her, didn't explain well enough, didn't go over wrong answers etc etc. She's in a school that last year over 50% of DC got a 9 in maths, so pace is fast. And she felt stupid against those that 'just got it'.”

ealingwestmum you have described exactly how maths was for DD. She was in the top set at a good comprehensive, but her maths teacher in year 11 taught at the speed that only the top maths students could learn, and her grades started dropping. I got her a maths tutor who could explain the new concepts to her at her speed, and she took iGCSE maths in the early sitting in January 2016 and passed with a good A*.

Her problem wasn’t that she couldn’t do maths, but that she took longer to understand new topics. Once she knew how to do things she flew. At that time iGCSE maths was considered more rigorous than GCSE and only the top set took it as it was considered better preparation for A level maths.

I agree with you Somethingsmellsnice. DD passed the entrance exam for an academically highly regarded independent girl’s school, with no tutoring. As we were unable to get a bursary she went to the local comprehensive instead. One of her friends went to the independent school on a scholarship that she was tutored for, but DD has outstripped her academically.

Bimkom · 01/02/2019 13:58

We have tutored at times (but we are in a comprehensive). Reasons have varied:

  • the most consistent tutoring has been in MFL. Firstly, because our local comp only has two periods a week for each MFL (and having talked to other mums and looked around, I discovered that this was very much less than most schools, who have at least three if not four), so I figured that having an extra hour for MFL was not exactly unreasonable. My DC are reasonable at languages, but not stellar, and with MFL, exposure is really key. I didn't want them to drop them because they were not getting enough exposure.
We briefly got a maths tutor in Year 7. This was because the year 7 setting test was very poorly done (basically too easy, so that very able mathematicians, like my DS, but who made silly mistakes, ended up in sets 3/4, and they couldn't even differentiate, as the setting test was so poor) and we were concerned he would fall behind in a set that was well, well below his mathematical ability. Once they took at look at his CAT scores (and a couple of others), and decided to do another (much harder) setting test in February, they moved him to the top set and we abandoned the tutor. We have also used an English tutor. If you have a DC with particular English weaknesses (spelling, structure, or just a habit of overcomplicating), having 1 on 1 to help them can be really beneficial, the English teacher has to deal with 30 kids in the class, so can't provide that level of assistance or steer. We thought at one point we might need a Geography tutor, because the teaching was really poor and they didn't have a clue how to deal with the new GCSE (the entire class failed their exams at the end of Year 10, I think the top mark in the class was 42/100, this is from students who are generally 8/9 students). We haven't though because (a) geography tutors are really difficult to come by; and b) they got a new teacher in the school who seems much more clued up, and the class is now gradually moving up to where they should be. In my experience the really good tutors in London charge £50 or so an hour, but if you need something less stellar, you can find for around £30
crazycrofter · 01/02/2019 14:05

I think the OP is a little naive though, to think that teaching in independents or grammars will be better than in comprehensives and therefore tutoring won’t be necessary.

There are good and bad teachers in all schools. I think probably there’s a bit more stability in so-called ‘top schools’ and less use of supply teachers. However sometimes this means poor teachers stay a long time!

Basically, in all schools tutoring seems to occur for these reasons:

  • poor teaching in particular subjects
  • child is struggling in particular subjects
  • pushy parents/ambitious child wants to get top grades and feels tutoring will ensure this

Is that a fair summary? In addition, in general I think some children are more suited to the learning style of school (taught in a big group/ involving lots of listening plus group work) than others. My son, for example, learns best on his own and gets very distracted in lessons - either by others or by his own thoughts. We might end up getting some extra help for him but that’s nothing to do with failure on the school’s part.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 01/02/2019 15:35

A close family member of mine tutors GCSE and A Level students. The vast majority are not those who need help to pass, they are usually very high achievers who want to get A in everything (or is it the parents?..) and are currently 'only' predicted an A in the subject.*

Interesting a year or so ago a member of MN completed rubbished my suggestion that children at high achieving super-selective grammars continue to have tuition all the way through secondary school. Glad to see that others agree that it's not just those who are struggling to grasp a subject who are tutored!

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 01/02/2019 15:37

Interestingly and completely even it has been a long week

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