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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Doing GCSE Music outside of school

25 replies

donkeyshrekmom · 29/01/2019 22:51

We are just going through GCSE options for next year. Having trouble fitting in the subjects DS wants to continue with: they only have 2 free choices, after they've fitted in all the compulsory subjects which means dropping 1 out of his 3 favourite subjects, all of which are possible contenders for sixth form and beyond.

He's quite advanced as a musician and we're thinking this might be the subject he's most likely to be motivated to study in his own time (in theory …). I could help him and / or we could find a tutor. However, I know that there is a high practical and coursework component, and so I'm not sure if it's even possible to do as an external candidate.

Does anyone have experience of this? We have options parents' eve in a couple of weeks and I plan to ask the music teacher if they can help at all but would like to ask around first.

(in the old days, with the O level I did, it would have been perfectly possible to do it outside of school as there was no coursework. But I know things have changed ..)

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Moominmammacat · 30/01/2019 09:48

My DS did iGCSE as an external candidate on 1 hr a week for two terms at JRAM at 14. Excellent teaching, workload not great. Practical component already taken care of, composition basic and formulaic, so it was only the practical paper to take care of. If you get the right teacher it's a walk in the park.

donkeyshrekmom · 30/01/2019 10:07

Thanks. Am I right on thinking he will need to be attached somehow to an institution? So if school won't help, not sure who might. Junior department isn't an option. What is IGCSE as opposed up GCSE?

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Boyskeepswinging · 30/01/2019 10:55

Does your DS know what he wants to do on leaving school? If so that might help prioritise the subjects. He may be able to substitute GCSE/A level music with high grades in his practical and theory grades. A friend of mine got caught out with this though so you do need to do your research first!
I know there are online GCSE courses available ... have a Google.

Boyskeepswinging · 30/01/2019 10:56

IGCSE = International GCSE. Different syllabus but still counted fully as a GCSE by uni's etc.

donkeyshrekmom · 30/01/2019 14:36

Possibilities for sixth form and beyond are music and computer science, and / or possibly classics. And it's this combination that he can't do at GCSE so working out what to drop / what might be possible as an external candidate.

He will have to reapply for sixth form at his current school or apply elsewhere. Schools with good music depts are over subscribed and all say GCSE music is essential for A level - and has to be a high grade. I'm not sure there is any flexibility as I imagine the applications are processed by computer and little or no chance of Having him as a special case.

I know its possible to get into college / university with theory and practical grades instead of A level but it's not ideal. Part of the bonus of sixth form is having time to study your chosen subject.

I looked up IGCSE for Cambridge board.,It says it won't be recognised by blah blah awards body in the UK from 2020, so that is a bummer. Don't know if other bodies do this exam, and doesn't have this problem.

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Boyskeepswinging · 30/01/2019 16:06

Hmmm ... sounds tricky. I don't envy you. You're right, for the Music GCSE there is both individual and group performances and composition coursework in addition to the written papers.
Have you considered asking if it is possible to drop one of the compulsory subjects and take a third option instead? I did this for my DS which means he's not studying geography or history. Neither subject interested him nor was needed for the course he wants to do at uni so it made sense for him to do subjects he is interested in instead. There are a couple of EBacc threads active at the moment debating exactly this sort of thing - lots of parents are facing the same issues!
All I would say is raise it with the school and see what they say. You might be pleasantly surprised. Good luck!

Malbecfan · 30/01/2019 17:13

I'm quite surprised that schools will only take students for A level who have the GCSE. We have an A level group of 7, only 5 of whom took the GCSE. The other 2 worked on their theory in year 11 and both had passed grade 5 before they started. They have found some parts more tricky but were made aware of this before they started. Both are decent performers and committed to music-making.

My advice would be that if your DS cannot fit in Music at GCSE, ensure that he has evidence of practical and theory achievement; I suggest a minimum of grade 6 in each. This shows motivation beyond the classroom. However, someone upthread has mentioned that you can study online and I have a friend who is teaching one of these courses. If you want more info, please DM me and I'll find out what it is called.

Comefromaway · 30/01/2019 19:37

I looked up IGCSE for Cambridge board.,It says it won't be recognised by blah blah awards body in the UK from 2020, so that is a bummer

That refers to the old A*-G syllabus. It is being replaced by a new 9-1 IGCSE qualification

titchy · 30/01/2019 19:43

If he's a competent musician, happy to self study, has someone to accompany him and can compose, then ask if the school would enter him and record his performance and composition elements with their GCSE class. If he gets on very well with the music teachers at school they might be happy to agree...

titchy · 30/01/2019 19:44

Or if Latin/ classics is one that he wants can he do that in his own time rather than music? Bit easier practically than music GCSE!

Comefromaway · 30/01/2019 19:49

The main problem will be composition. The teacher not only has to mark it but has to have provided sufficient direct supervision to be able to sign off on the fact the composition is all their own work. They also have to record it in its entirety.

donkeyshrekmom · 30/01/2019 20:23

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Comefromaway: I'll have another look at the IGCSE option but it looked (peering into my phone on the train this morning on the mobile website) that it was the new 2020 syllabus that wasn't being recognised.

Re. doing GCSE at school but not actually as part of the GCSE class (which would be the ideal option): the music teachers know him well, and are very encouraging with performance etc, and so I'm really hoping to get some helpful feedback when I meet them in a couple of weeks. But I realise it would mean extra work for them, which they might feel is inappropriate. And it probably sets a precedent which I know schools in general are wary of. I don't supposed he's the only kid having similar problems, especially when its the arts subjects that are generally squeezed out (very academic school, hence only 2 free options when you've done all the compulsory stuff). Having read up about it, I realise it's the composition supervision that could be a major difficulty.

Titchy: yes, next port of call after the music dept will be the Latin dept! I think he'll be less motivated to study that alone but the teachers might be keener to help as he's very enthusiastic about the subject and has been getting really good marks. I think they're fully expecting him to take it as an option, so they might be motivated to try and make it possible. I know someone who knows someone who is a Latin tutor, so that's a possibility if we need outside tutoring. I know a Mum who used to teach MFLs at this school about 15 years ago and in those days she had the odd student doing an extra language, and she taught in her lunch break once a week, and set extra homework etc and it turned out fine. What the ethos is these days, I don't know.

Boys: I'd love him to drop one of the compulsory subjects but it's never going to happen. They are really strict. My major bugbear is that they all have to do triple science. My son is ok at science but it's really not his passion and I know he's not going to be arsed to work hard. He got his mid-year report today and got 8s and 9s for everything he likes, and 6s and 7s for everything else, incl. science. That speaks volumes.

Malbec: I'm fairly sure he would be capable of jumping straight in at A level (he's about to take Grade 8 on his first instrument, and he will do some theory exams when we get around to it). He's a good all-round musician, from a musical family, does a lot of ensemble playing, does a bit of composition, and he's got a very musical brain, so I think he could get on ok. But it looks like the schools with good music depts. are quite competitive to get into at A level, and over-subscribed. They say on their websites that they require A or A* at GCSE for all A level subjects studied, and on top of that there's an audition. So, if they're looking to eliminate people, my instinct is that they'll just throw out all applications from people without GCSE. His own school might be more flexible as they know him, if he decides to stay there, but I'm not entirely sure. It's something I need to check further. (Staying at his own school for sixth form has added complications, which I won't go into now - but it's why he needs to keep options open.) I will send you a DM about the online teaching - thank you!!

Doing computer science (his other favourite subject) outside of school is a definitely no-no as it looks hard and there's nobody at home to help with that! Far too hard. At least that's a firm decision.

I should just get over it, really. But it hurts a bit that kids have to make decisions so early on.

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donkeyshrekmom · 30/01/2019 20:26

Comefromaway:

www.cambridgeinternational.org/programmes-and-qualifications/cambridge-igcse-music-0410/

"From 2020 examination this syllabus will no longer be regulated by the qualifications and examinations regulators in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Changes to the syllabus and specimen papers reflect the change in regulated status. This syllabus will continue to be available worldwide."

Don't really understand what this means??

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Comefromaway · 30/01/2019 20:30

Yes 0410 is becoming obsolete.

This is the syllabus you need.

www.cambridgeinternational.org/programmes-and-qualifications/cambridge-igcse-music-9-1-0978/

donkeyshrekmom · 30/01/2019 20:39

So how does the IGCSE work then? Do we still need to arrange to attend a school/centre? Do we need a teacher, or can parents enter their child? This is all a new one for me …!

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Comefromaway · 30/01/2019 20:43

I’m not entirely sure except I know they are used a lot by home educators.

Wiifitmama · 30/01/2019 20:51

As far as I know, you cannot do GCSE music as an external candidate except at one of the few places that offer a full course on a Saturday or otherwise. I home educate and have looked at this extensively for one of my sons who is a musician and plans to do A level music. IGCSE's are exams that are equivalent to GCSE's but have historically been easier for home educators to sit as they are exam only - no coursework. Now, with the GCSE reforms, there is little difference for most subjects. You will not be able to sit a music IGCSE either - same issues.

I am surprised that any 6th form has GCSE music as a requirement for A level music. Some schools do not offer it. My son is applying to a very oversubscribed 6th form with an excellent music department that even offers music scholarship places and they are absolutely fine about him not having the GCSE. He needs instrument (or voice) exam grades of a high level, plus theory, plus of course the audition. If I was in your position, I would call the 6th forms in question and speak to them. Don't rely on the information on their websites.

concernedforthefuture · 30/01/2019 20:59

It was a few years ago now Grin but I did GCSE music in my own time, and just did the coursework / practical exam alongside my peers, but without going to the regular lessons. The music teacher at my school was very supportive and I was allowed to attend all of the revision sessions that took place during lunchtimes / after school etc. I was strong at the practical side of things (Grade 7 in my 1st instrument and grade 5 in my second). I taught myself the theory etc from a GCSE Revision guide (almost certainly easier nowadays with the internet to help!). It's certainly possible with a little help from school.

FourOnTheHill · 30/01/2019 21:08

Lots of places you can do this on a Saturday if you’re in or near London- Junior Trinity in Greenwich is excellent for example

anniehm · 30/01/2019 21:36

Dd did music and if they are an accomplished musician they could learn it independently - the practical musicianship element is taught by their instrument/singing teacher anyway, they have to compose (you will need access to sibalias (?), )
then there's the set pieces paper and music theory paper, but it varies by board a bit. You don't need a gcse in music to do a level music as long as you have grade 6 instrument/singing plus grade 5 theory.

Moominmammacat · 31/01/2019 09:03

Mine did exam at a school, arranged by JD. Another DS did Grade 8 theory and DipABRSM instead of music A level, offers from five RG unis. And yet another son did Cambridge Latin online, with an excellent tutor.

Lonecatwithkitten · 31/01/2019 13:41

We faced this dilemma as DD wishes to pursue a career in musical theatre, but music, dance and drama were not all possible. We talked to all the subject staff and they all agreed that if you had at least grade 5 in voice or an instrument and grade 5 ABRSM music theory that was equivalent to GCSE music. So this was the route we have gone. We are now looking at apply to specialist sixth forms and they are all happy with this approach. And would allow music A-level from this combination.

Comefromaway · 31/01/2019 13:48

Lonecat - Dd is at specialist college studying MT & she also went to vocational dance Lower School. Her school didn’t even offer GCSE dance & Dd didn’t take drama either so your Dd should be fine on that score.

Jimmyjimjam1 · 20/04/2020 21:32

Hello I have just been reading this thread with interest as we are about to be in the same position. My daughter is 14 years and grade 7 in two instruments and attends the Guildhall music school on a Saturday. She wants to study history, geography and music at GCSE, but has to drop one of them. She likes and is good at history and geography and wants to keep her options open for A level, but is reluctant to drop music as hopefully would get a high grade. I am just wondering what turned out to be the best option for those with the same dilemma? Thank you.

Lonecatwithkitten · 20/04/2020 22:49

@Jimmyjimjam1 absolutely worked her outside of school she has grade 6 distinction solo MT singing and grade 8 distinction MT in production for a devised show.

DD has a place on professional MT training for sixth form and is aiming for music conservatorie quadruple threat training - so lack of music GCSE has not held her back.

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