request a move down a set in maths?

[MacarenaFerreiro]

DD is 13 and in her second year at secondary. (we're in Scotland). She is in a large school with around 9 classes in her year group. Children were set for maths at the start of this year. there are three "top" classes, three "middle classes" and three "bottom" classes. As far as I know, there is no differentiation between what each class within each of the three groups is doing.

DD is struggling a lot in the top set. She has some real high flyers in her class who are getting 90% or more on each test. She is scraping a pass. Being one of the poorest performers in the class is really knocking her confidence. She also says that the teacher is regularly rushing them on to extension work - probably to match the pace of most of the class. She would prefer to ditch the extension work, and get the basics.

There's a parents' evening next week. We're considering asking that she be shifted to the next set down. She'd probably be performing towards the top third of that group rather than the bottom third of the group she's currently in. We think it would help with her confidence and make her less self-conscious about asking for help and clarification.

Unreasonable request? We are also discussing getting a tutor, but might leave this for a year or so until exams are looming.

Not unreasonable.

Though rather than saying 'please move her down' I would say 'DD feels she is struggling in the top set and it is affecting her confidence. How often do you review the sets?, as we were wondering whether she might be better placed in the set below'.

Agree - have already told DD that she might have to wait until they re-jig the classes in May even if they do agree to move her.

Not unreasonable at all. You are definitely dealing with it in the right way.

A sensible teacher and head of Maths would move her asap or as a minimum don’t expect her to do extension work. I had moved students in the middle of the year before it got too late.

I agree. There may well be another parent who wants their child moved up so might not be a problem.

Our parents evenings are 5 minutes slots so not enough time to have this type of conversation. I would not immediately request she is moved down, I'd want to hear how the teacher thinks she is doing first, give them the feedback from dd and see if they have a solution.

Our school provides after school maths support 3 days a week for those that want a bit of extra support, pupils can drop in whenever they feel like it with details of what they are struggling with and there are a couple of the maths teachers available to help. Maybe ask the maths teacher if there is anything available at your school.

In our school there is a difference in what is taught in each set. ds is in the top set and they have been working on Nat5 maths since the start of S3 with level already 4 secure. My niece is in the bottom set and they are probably doing Nat4 in S4 and Nat5 exams in S5. I would worry a middle class would not cover the Nat5 objectives as thoroughly as the top classes and while they will do Nat5 exam the expectation is they will have lower results due to the reduced content they have covered. I'd also want to discuss this with the teacher which is why a 5 minute parents evening slot might not be appropriate.

If you are looking for some practice books for for Nat4 or Nat5 the TeeJay maths ones are quite good. ds(14) doesnt get much homework at his school (whole other thread!) so does an hour or so out of these books every week on the topics he struggles with (backed up by BBC bitesize if he struggles with the concept) and he finds it really does help him.

You're totally reasonable.
As another poster suggested, i'd take the approach of 'this is how DC is feeling, when do you review'.

If it's a bigger issue than a slot on parents' evening then you could always call ahead and ask for the teacher to call you back (we much prefer this if there is a bigger issue as it means we can help you more and don't end up with a massive queue). Or you could raise it at parents' evening and acknowledge you might need to talk more as a follow up.

Good luck.

My DC is learning a lot more and has become rather better at maths since being kicked out of a top tier set littered with kids who make the kangaroo and Olympiad rounds. He was upset at first having fouled up the key setting exam but now he is really enjoying the subject again and hoping to do FM A level. Sometimes set 2 has a more helpful teacher who does not assume everybody gets it first time. Maths is so stretched out in ability range that getting the pace right can make a big difference. Learning more and loving the subject are more important than setting bragging.

It's a high performing school - many children are academic superstars and yes to some regularly competing in the maths olympiad and so on.

DD is average at Maths. It's not something she wants to do as a career, she's much more interested in History, Goegraphy, Drama. But she needs to secure a solid pass in Maths in her GCSE-equivalent exams to get onto whatever course she wants in the future. So that's the goal.

I just feel that the "top set" is pitched towards people who are going to be carrying on with maths post-16, hence all the extension work to push them on. Which is great, but I just feel DD would benefit from more time spent on the core curriculum and forget the extension work.

We have a grand total of 3 minutes at parents' evening!! Not really enough time to say anything more than hello but we can request a call/email if there's not enough time.

Definitely have a chat with maths teacher. You may find that they are concerned about your DD too. Sometimes they hold off, with a wait and see approach, as they may want to avoid demoralising your DD. However, if you, and she, explain how she is feeling, and that she would be happier in the set below, they may be very pleased to accommodate that.

My DD started in top set and struggled, even in the second set she found she was fast enough. In the third set she has found her happy place. She gets more time to grasp concepts, and is the top of that set, and in fact gets extension work for that set. Her results have got better and better as she has gained confidence. She now matches results with the second set but has asked that she stays where she is, as there is no pressure to outperform her peers.

Interestingly, my DD is also a Eng/History/Drama girl, that is where her interests and talents lie :-)

even in the second set she found she was fast enough

Was NOT fast enough...... Ugh typo.

Definitely have a chat with the teacher and see what is going on and their thoughts. If your DD is struggling she will be better in the lower set and if the move comes from her she will get on even better.

DD1 (16) was placed in the top set for maths in Yr7 because of her SAT results. She struggled on for a few months before the teacher talked to her about moving down a set and it was the best thing she could have done. The teacher was better at explaining and she didn't feel the pressure of being in the top set.

Dd was in the top set for English in Year 7. She then got moved down a set in Year 8 and I noticed her grades actually went up in the lower group. In the top set she had complained the others wrote too fast and she couldn't keep up. The next set down with more average kids seemed to suit her better.
In year 9 she ended up in the top set again and seemed ok that year and doing fine in year 10. I guess progress doesn't always happen in a uniform way.

Dd once ask to be moved down a maths set to no avail.

We then emailed to ask and it was a wait and see.

Dd eventually got desperate, checked there was a spare seat in the other class and moved herself.

School then emailed to say they had decided to move her.

Couldn't recommend this approach but it certainly taught non confrontational dd an interesting life lesson.

Dd did very well in her new set.

No help to you but still makes me smile.

My mum did exactly this when I was at secondary. It was a huge relief - it wasnt so much the content that I struggled with in the fop set but I just couldn't match the pace.

top set. Though a fop set sounds fun.

When my eldest went to secondary school he had no confidence in Maths. I asked them privately to put him in the bottom set, and his confidence grew and he flew. Confidence and self esteem trump set places every time!

Absolutely ask about moving sets.

DD was doing OK in her set last year but her teacher thought she'd better in the next set down - still doing Higher Paper but at a slower pace.

Last year she was considered to be heading for a 5 but might get a 6, this year her teacher says "definitely a 6 if all goes well and could get a 7 if she wants to put in the work". So moving down a set does not at all mean assuming they'll get a worse grade.

It's definitely a confidence thing too. She has always had this "i'm rubbish at maths" attitude, ever since she was tiny. She's not rubbish. She's maybe not a 90% plus student, she's a B or C rather than a A. And that's FINE. She's also very aware of what everyone else is doing and feels they're all better than her.

She doesn't like her Maths teacher much and is a bit scared of him too which puts her off asking questions. She has said that when she asks, there's a bit of eye rolling and sighing from some of the others in the class too.

We spoke about it last night, she's quite happy with the idea of a potential move down, but as is usual with teenage girls she's more bothered about whether her friends will be in the new class than whether she'll actually be more suited to it.