Lying on Bursary application

[Secondarypissed]

Some one we know lied on their Bursary application for private school application. They rent a place for application while there main home is some where else. What would you do. We applied the same schools and are expected to pay the full fee.

It still only funds 13 places though Glaciferous. Sorry, still depressed!

Where DD went to school the rules for fee assessments changed a few times, basically getting rid of the loopholes that some parents used to get subsidised fees.

On the chat forums it was astonishing how many felt it was outrageous that they should consider releasing equity from their houses to pay for their DC private education- talking people with tiny mortgages, huge equity there were also clauses having to declare works of art, jewellery over a certain value.

They had to stop automatic sibling discount. I suppose if you're entitled enough you could just lie about how many properties you own... With interest rates so low for so long endowment returns have suffered.

Yes, I know! I am with you on this. I agree it is really unfair. Where did you get the 13 places info from? I suppose the fees are so high that they have some latitude to assign fees to bursary provision. It would be interesting to see the financial breakdown of this. I don't disagree with it, by the way, in the absence of a proper long-standing endowment fund. I think the whole student body benefits from a) greater diversity and b) more outstandingly clever kids.

My son is on a bursary (Y10) and every May I have to complete an application, then the fees are decided for the following September.

I have to provide 3 months bank, mortgage, council tax, credit card and CSA statements. Payslips and P60. I don't know how people get away with lying. I'd be too scared of being found out and my son's place being taken away...

We are looking at applying for a bursary place. I've got the application form and it is a full financial scrutiny as others have said. As a minimum, payslips, P60s, P11Ds, tax returns, bank statements, income including any taxable benefits/pension/dividends/benefits/life assurance policies and a full breakdown of outgoings. Plus capital assets, and verification of assets i.e. property value, mortgage statement and investment portfolio valuation. I am genuinely at a loss how claiming to live at a different address would entitle them to a bursary!

If it makes you uncomfortable, I think I would type an anonymous letter to the bursar stating the home address and concerns you have. Post it and they can't trace it back to you. I believe any indy would take this extremely seriously.

As someone who gets bursaries for their kids, I can tell you this- never presume to know how someone’s finances are. They can be complicated and you probably don’t know the full facts. On the surface I probably seem fairly affluent to fellow parents. They have no idea about the complicated and difficult financial circumstances we currently endure behind closed doors. If and when this finances change I will have to report that to the schools and I will be compelled to pay more and I’m fine with that. As another poster said, we have to reapply every year and give very detailed financial information. It would be difficult to pull the wool over the schools’ eyes, and as someone else said, why would you risk it- it’s fraud.

I think it's awful if they are trying to get a bursary and don't actually deserve one....although I do know a few people in my local area who go to one of the local private boys schools and it is common knowledge that the whole bursary system is flawed. For example, all the bursaries at this particular school appear to go to the relatives of teachers - it is really blatant and really annoys the other parents as most of these families wouldn't usually qualify but they have connections in the school and know how to play the system. Disgusting.

The school my DDs went to gave “Awards”
to girls they liked. One set of very rich parents (yes, I do know they were loaded because it was never concealed what job he did) received free music lessons for a year for their DD. There was an award holders concert where the DDs of well off parents were included. I was gobsmacked as DD received £0 for an academic scholarship. It seemed to be about thanking parents who donated to the school. Effectively, they got some of it back!

I have seen their accounts and they do take fee money to assist with bursaries. They also make money from lettings and hosting conferences etc. Essentially schools all act differently and spend money on bursaries in different ways. It’s not always for the most deserving!

OP: I can’t help but notice your username. secondarypissed.
Annoyed at anything secondary related?
Unless I was personally certain of fraud, I would perhaps report it anonymously. However, you cannot be certain. And do you know all the checks the bursar undertakes?. A lot of the larger private schools use private companies that undertake very thorough investigations; to check any property ownerships, debts, ccjs, salaries, where council tax has been paid, at least a five year home address history, bank statements, credit card statements etc. And they will ask questions. Such as ‘why did you move out of a large house into a one bed flat late last year?’ And they will expect answers.
Also, do you know if they have even been successful with their application? Private schools are aware of bursary fraud and especially in the South East where annual fees are around £20-£30k ish they will be very careful about who is genuinely offered the bursary imo. You never know, the person you suspect of fraud could be offered nothing or 10%! And may not even take the place. IF their child is even successful in securing a place.

Our bursaries were scholarship dependent. It wasn’t a pure process and we were actively encouraged to be generous with the truth on the application by the school to include all sorts of outgoings that reduced the income/expenditure gap.

It might not be that they’ve lied. You’re allowed more than one property.
You might end up looking mealy mouthed and difficult.

I’d leave well alone unless you know exactly what the bursary application form said and what the school attitude is.

I also know some families who have applied or already granted bursaries, even 100%. We can't know people's financial situation exactly but I know some of they pay more than 1k for their DC's tutions every month and spend thousands on their DC's designer clothing when paying nothing for school fee. I know people who uses different person's bank account to save up their money and it can be much easier if they do their own business. However, I always just leave it up to them. I believe one day they will definately see they were wrong with shame and regret.

“very wealthy friends who applied for full university grants for their children on the basis that they have no income (because they don't need to work).“
They must have lied on the form. Report them.

Report them. We have bursary children who take long-haul family holidays every year and I think it is wrong

I was chatting to a local school bursar and she was telling me how every year she has a parent coming in to say that their marriage has broken up and they have been left destitute yada yada. When she tells them that she needs evidence of this the marriage miraculously heals...

Would love to know how you know they lied. Did you see the the physical bursary application? And if yes, how come you saw it? It is a highly confidential document in which parents have to submit absolutely everything - bank statements, HMRC tax returns, credit card bills, rental agreements, council tax bills. It is a very intrusive process designed to deter anyone who does not absolutely need it. Checks are most thorough at the most selective schools.

Less selective schools might be slightly less thorough in their checks with candidates of scholarship quality. Either the children you are talking about are more academically able than your children and are used by a second tier school to boost their league table results, or you are at a top selective school that does extremely rigorous checks, so either way I would suggest stop making assumptions about their eligibilty.

It’s a bit mad though as presumably they are paying the extra rent which is how much? Compared to the bursary reduction

I cant believe you're still going on after your other post was deleted.

What exactly is your objective here? To make sure that schools maintain the integrity of their bursary programme? Payback because the school hasn't respected your access? or Payback because your DC's mother isn't being nice to you? I mean are you trying to take an opportunity from your DC just to make a point?

Unless you have seen their full application you do not know whether they have lied or not.
Are you sure that the family home actually belongs to them? Some properties are actually ownded by other family members/trusts etc.
Maybe they are having to rent out the family home for financial reasons eg lost job/divorce?
How do you know what the child said in the interview? Were you there?
What difference does the actual location of the property make? I could see that renting a flat in catchment might make it more likely a student got a place at a state school but this rarely applies to independents and bursaries (unless they have bursary funds specifically for children from county X).

Private schools are very good at sniffing out lies/misrepresentations on bursary applications. But by all means tip them off if you are sure something is wrong.

This thread is years old!