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Original poster

Ofsted announce school report grades are bollocks and to be ignored

178 replies

noblegiraffe · 21/12/2018 20:24

Confirming what I’ve been banging on about for ages, Ofsted have announced that school internal tracking data - the sort of ‘working at’ grades that appear on reports to parents - will be ignored in school inspections because it’s made-up nonsense.

“Too often a vast amount of teachers' time is absorbed into recording, collecting and analysing excessive progress and attainment data within schools. And that diverts their time away from what they came into the profession to do. which is be educators.

“And, in fact, with much of that internal progress and attainment data, they and we can’t be sure that it is valid and reliable information.”

www.tes.com/news/ofsted-inspections-wont-examine-internal-school-data

Maybe, just maybe, if Ofsted are no longer interested in seeing it, teachers won’t have to make it up any more?

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 21/12/2018 21:51

A Christmas Hallelujah!

Danglingmod · 21/12/2018 22:26
Grin
Soursprout · 22/12/2018 05:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 22/12/2018 05:27

Have they been visited by some Christmas ghosts or something? The ghost of Christmas yet to come could be frankly terrifying.

Piggywaspushed · 22/12/2018 08:08

My school is obsessed with data (well, particularly my faculty has become a 'victim' of it) and is seen as a 'centre of excellence'.

Our previous head's mantra was 'data is king' ! And we have an extraordinarily highly paid data manager... can't see him going anywhere.

I know you think he's a knob, noble but it looks like Didau may have got the ear of Ofsted!

I assuem this will be ignored in my schoolbecause they will think we are exceptions.

Cat0115 · 22/12/2018 08:15

I have had this conversation every 6 weeks. English teachers have to make predictions up because it's about so much more than force feeding facts foie gras style for pupils to splurt out onto the paper. Articulacy is ingrained from a family start, school environment and child's willingness to engage with reading. We are doing a lot of work on curriculum (not timetable hahaha) at the moment and it feels Good!

Piggywaspushed · 22/12/2018 08:18

At my school, we are not even allowed to make predictions in our dept : the data manager does it...

BikeRunSki · 22/12/2018 08:20

That is brilliant news for schools. Now if only someone could influence Defra.. who are just bringing in a while loaf of this type of monitoring of everything we do.

Cat0115 · 22/12/2018 08:23

Piggy isn't that just the issue? Highly paid spreadsheet wranglers have created the data beast and now have to keep feeding it. My academy has a disproportionate number of maths and business teachers in these sorts of positions. Dep Head is a maths teacher. In charge of curriculum which in reality is timetable and feeding the data dog. Now having to engage with actual T and L! Not a good time for him. I remember the pain for the rest of us when we had to spend hours collating and analysing data. No amount of bleating got the slightest change to this utter waste of time. Now my department can spend that time planning!

TeenTimesTwo · 22/12/2018 09:30

Well, as a parent, some indication is needed as to whether your DC needs intervention or not is pretty useful. It isn't helpful to potter along with weasel words only to be told mid y10 that your DC is looking likely to not get 4+ in English or Maths.

Also when choosing GCSE options, again you want to know what your DC has a good chance of success in.

However I don't like it when reports appear to be based on a single test. DD (y9) just got a report which indicates heading towards grade 7+ in science. This is pretty ridiculous in my considered opinion. (Last report said 4/5). It is only because she did well in a test that I helped her revise for over a 3 week period when she had practically no other homework from anyone.

Piggywaspushed · 22/12/2018 09:32

Yup. Our entire SLT is science and maths ( no offence Noble). But our data man is not a teacher so they will have to find more useful ways to deploy his talents.

Holidayshopping · 22/12/2018 09:34

That’s interesting!

I wish we could rewind 20 years when tracking and data and predictions barely existed!

Teaching was a much nicer place to be.

PeroniZuchini · 22/12/2018 09:39

What... this is bonkers. I gave dd a really stern talking to the other day when her grade report came out, as it looks as if she’s slipping in areas. The chance that these figures are based on spurious data input is nonsensical. Poor dd, she was really upset about her marks... and now I have no idea how much faith to put in these predictions. We have three grade reports, one parents evening (five minutes with each teacher) and one slightly more detailed report with the grades in the summer, so grade reports are the only measure we get really. This is surely not enough to go on in Y10!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2018 10:50

I think this shows that the biggest barrier to ditching the data will be parents.

Parents want this data, possibly even knowing it’s a bunch of crap. I think they still think there’s some science behind it all.

I agree with Teen that parents need to know if their kid is pootling towards a fail at GCSE but the level of accuracy that these grades imply (e.g working at 3+ in Y7) just isn’t possible.

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Piggywaspushed · 22/12/2018 10:59

Oh, I don't know...we coulld try trustung the professionla judgement of teachers!

Our obsession came in a few years ago when it was found our predictions weren't accurate! Well, I never! Who knew predictions weren't prophecies??!
So, the data behemoth took off (that's probably a mixed metaphor) and our predictions became more 'accurate', statistically. Which , of course, took focus off individual students and just looked at overall cohorts : so still no one cared about the outliers. They could just point them out on ridiculously over complex graphs.

teentimestoo, you point out exactly the problem with reports full of data! It ahs become a trend in education (everything comes back round eventually!) to not put marks on student work, as all studies show that they don't listen to feedback if they are given a grade, in particular (no shit, Sherlock). Maybe more parents would actually read the reports that teachers have often taken hours and hours to write if there were no grades on them?

Piggywaspushed · 22/12/2018 10:59

Swear I checked that post for typos...

TeenTimesTwo · 22/12/2018 11:05

Perhaps the grades should be:

  • could pass if work hard (1-5)
  • should pass if work hard (3-6)
  • will pass if work hard (5-8)
  • will pass even if slack off (7-9)
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2018 11:10

it looks like Didau may have got the ear of Ofsted!

I like to think Amanda Spielman reads Mumsnet Grin

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TeenTimesTwo · 22/12/2018 11:14

I do think that if report grades should be clear whether they are the result of a single test or if the teacher has taken the test result with judgement based on classwork etc.

I also sort of feel that (especially if done from a single test), the grade shouldn't be allowed to move by more than one band up or down at a time.

And I quite agree that saying someone is a 3+ or 6- is ridiculous, even in y11.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2018 11:21

Teen there are some kids who just aren’t going to pass however hard they work. What annoys parents about those sorts of groupings (like they use in primary) is that a kid can spend an entire year learning nothing and stay in the same band.

It’s difficult. I always remember the student I taught in bottom set Y7 who was delightful and hardworking, but really struggling. Her reports were in national curriculum levels and at parents evening I said that she would be unlikely to pass GCSE at this rate. Her parents were horrified, they had no idea what NC levels meant and her reports had always been glowing in terms of effort. They hired a tutor, started doing loads of maths with her at home and 5 years later she did actually pass.

Another year I had a student who was also unlikely to pass, and when I said this, the parent put a complaint in Hmm

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2018 11:22

You can’t grade single tests, you just can’t. Any grade that’s based on a test (except a full mock) should be instantly disregarded as bullshit.

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Piggywaspushed · 22/12/2018 11:32

noble, maybe we should start a school...

Ta1kinpeace · 22/12/2018 11:45

At my school the only feedback the parents got was the end of term report with a vague grade
so when I crashed and burned at my exams it was a shock to my parents not to me
there has to be some sort of feedback for parents and teachers

  • look at what happened in Wales when league tables were abolished
but yes, the data monster needs controlling and I'm an accountant Xmas Grin
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2018 11:58

piggy good idea! You could ask your pal Lehain for advice on how to go about it Wink

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Original poster
noblegiraffe · 22/12/2018 12:04

Wales abolishing league tables is different because that’s about external exam data - Ofsted are talking about internal data. (Although the reports are looking like even external exam data is dubious...)

We know that progress can’t be measured and quantified. So what can we report to parents?

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