How much imput do your children have in choosing their schools?

[OrmIrian]

My eldest will go up next year (2008). There are 4 schools that he could almost certainly get a place in - we are slap bang in the middle of 4 catchment areas. However 2 I'm not keen on (both huge campuses with over a thousand pupils) and neither has a good rep with regard to academic results or discipline although one is improving fast. One of the schools with the best results academically is an ex-grammar. The other is small (less than 600 pupils) and improving fast from a lowish base thanks to a new HT. DH and I incline to the second 2, especially the latter as I think he will benefit from the smaller school (it's also been designated a science college which is DS#1's thing). We discussed it briefly with him and agreed that next year we'd have a look round the second 2 schools. Today in class, the teacher brought up the subject of which schools the pupils would go to and almost all of his mates are going to one of the big scary schools and made stupid jokes about the others (ie they're 'posh' and 'gay' wtf??). So DS is now insisting he wants to go to the same school as all his friends and got quite upset about it.

I know other parents who've 'stamped all that nonsense out' and insisted that their child go where they think is best. But is that reasonable ? Given that it's the child that will be going there.

I would ignore current views. He isn't going for another 15 months (although you will probably have to choose by October this year).

All the schools will have open evenings/days. Arrange to visit the ones you and dh favour and the bigger one. You may find that DS1 changes his mind once he sees the bigger school. If he doesn't, you may find that you are impressed by the school anyway. I know that I was when I visited a local high school, which I had previously thought to be unsuitable for my children.

Get all the facts/impressions first and then start to worry about which school to choose.

Ours had/will have very little imput. Children of 9-10 (as they when they start looking around and the forms are actually filled in) cannot make an informed decision about where to go to school. That's our job as parents.

We were definite that our 3 would go to the same school, so when we had to apply for our eldest, we were clear from the start that it was us the parents making the decision for all 3 of them, rather than our daughter deciding. Otherwise it would have been 'how come SHE got to choose and we can't'.

The friends business is a red herring. Yes, in the initial days it is lovely to have some familiar faces around, but children make new friends so quickly. Within a fortnight of starting, our eldest wasn't mixing with any of her old primary friends, and her brother has followed the same pattern. I've known parents (or their child) choose a school on the basis of where friends are going, and in the end they've moved on from those friends very quickly indeed.

I would echo Freckle's views - have a look around all 4 schools with an open mind. 1000 pupils really isn't that big - my children's school has over 1600 but doesn't feel huge. It still has a lovely community, 'family' feel to it.

I don't think it's unreasonable for parents to choose. Children have a different agenda, they want to go where their friends 'might' be going, or where the school dinners were nicer on their trial days, or where the uniform is (or isn't) a certain colour, or because they liked the look of the dance studio or whatever. Parents are looking for a school for 7 years which will hopefully bring out all their child's potential - my 9 year old is also starting secondary school in Sep 2008 and there is no way I would hand that decision over to him.

Thanks. I agree things can change freckle - I'm going on what I know now. I do know some local teachers who have given me very different views of all 4 schools to that generally held by local people generally. Reputations take longer to change than reality does sometimes.

portnovo - I am tending to your viewpoint as it happens. Which is unusual for me as a rather liberal wishy-washy parent . My DS gets distracted by quite trivial factors sometimes. I'm not sure that we wouldn't let DD and DS#2 go to different schools if it seemed right for them at the time.

I do have some experience of the bigger school that DS fancies - I mentored there for a period before my third child was born. I didn't like it at all - it seemed to be unfriendly and unruly. But as mentioned things can change.

I explained to dd1 that she would come with us to look at the schools, that we would discuss our views with her, that we wanted to hear her opinions and would take them seriously, but in the end we would make the final decision, because it was our job as parents to take a longer view than a 10yo child is capable of.

She seemed to think that was fair. Interestingly, her preference was for a different school to me when we looked in Y5, but when we revisited in Y6 my preferred school had had a change of head and a very different feel, and we all ended up preferring her initial choice. None of her friends were going to this school, and we did discuss this, but all agreed that we couldn't let other children's parents dictate her agenda. She has made loads of new friends, and still sees her old friends as well, so the best of both worlds. Lots of the families who prioritised keeping the children with their friends are far less happy with their choice now (end of Y7) and most of the children are in new friendship groups anyway.

Clearly you don't want to be forcing a child to go to a school he's adamantly opposed to. But 10 year-olds are still pretty malleable -- with luck you should be able to indoctrinate him into your way of thinking without him realising what's going on.

Fortunately for us, DS1 liked the school we wanted him to attend anyway. However, DS2 has recently had to go through the school selection process and it was by no means certain that he would want the same school. In fact, his bestest friend (joined-at-the-hip type friends) is going to the local high school (which is very good) whilst DS2 was going to sit the 11+ which might eventually see him at a different school (which has in fact happened).

So DS2 had quite a dilemma on his hands. Did he sit the 11+ knowing that he might very well be attending a different school from his friend (who wasn't sitting the exam) or did he opt for the high school? Both DH and I wanted him to go to the grammar, but were fairly relaxed about it as we'd been impressed by the high school.

In the end, DS2 chose to sit the exam and will be attending the grammar in September. We explained to him that, although he wouldn't be at the same school as his friend, they could still see each other out of school as they both attend a drama school on Tuesday evenings, plus friend's mum and I are really good friends too so we would ensure they have plenty of opportunities to meet up.

I agree completely with frogs (again). Ds1 is yr5 now, and we started researching secondary options last year. I made it very clear to him at the time that whilst we valued his opinion and would listen to him, ultimately the decision was for us to make, not him.
He accepted this position.

Left to his own devices he would make the decision on:
*Which open day had the biggest explosion in a science demo
*Which open day had the best/most food on offer
*Which school had the scratchiest uniform
*Which school gave the least homework (as advised by siblings of his peers)

I'm in the 'parents make the decision' camp too.

As DS has to go to the school there is no way I would have chosen a school he hated.One school we looked at he said there was no way he wanted to go there.
Thankfully his 1st and 2nd choice were the same as ours, both science orientated school.
The first choice we didn't think we would get because he had to do an aptitude test for, thankfully he was one of the selected.
He was not really worried about friends going but thankfully the 2 other boys who took the test also got in and they are his friends.

I wouldn't force DD (yr 4) to go there if she doesn't want to, she seems more worried about what friends are going where, buth thankfully one of her best friends is sister to one of the boys going with DS. But I wouldn't her let her go to a school just because her friends are going, if it was the wrong school for.

We only looked at the Grammars, any of which would have been fine by me, and the one he, I and dh got the best feel about was the one he got a place in.

As they were all much of a muchness (98 to 100% GCSE pass malarkythingies), we worked on the basis that it was him who'd have to go there every day for 7 years, so it was fair enough to let him choose.

If he'd failed the 11 plus, we'd have had a lot more input into which independent to send him to, as there seems to be a lot more variation between them.

My elder dds chose their own (different) secondary schools. They explained their reasons to us and we were happy to go along with them.
We are lucky to live in an area with 4 good secondary schools so we were able to let them make their own decisions.

When we looked round our local comp with dd1 I remember thinking this school isn't right for you please don't choose it. She said to us afterwards that no way was she going there. With dd2 she knew before looking that she WANTED to go to the local school so when we looked round with her it was with a different set of eyes and we knew she would be happy there. Although this is only her first year there it's been the right choice.

As roisin and Frogs say.

My dd can change her mind 5 times in as many minutes.

Oh and ignore 'specialist schools status' except that it gives schools a bit more cash. Your budding footie player, will still be able to do sport in non sports collages etc.

Friendship groups are also a bit of a red herring, as kids soon make new groupings in year 7.....I've been a y7 form tutor, and saw it happen.

We're lucky too as live in the catchment area of 3 very good schools. We took DD1 to the open day of her (now) school - she liked it so much we didn't go round the others - mind you, it was our first choice and all her friends were going there too. So bit of a no-brainer! However, must also say I'm firmly in the "parental choice" camp - my friend decided the school her DD would go to wasn't for them (different catchment area), and despite a whole term of "stupid school" whenever it came up in conversation, her DD has settled in really well, made lots of new friends, still sees the old friends at weekends and (weather permitting) these lovely summer evening . I think you have to decide what you think is best for them - after all, given the choice mine would eat chocolate for breakfast (as once offered by their Grandma!!), chicken nuggets and chips for lunch and dinner, and fruit shoots all round!!!

Thanks.

I guess we listen intently, nod our heads a lot and then choose the school we want regardless

Now DH and I just have to agree.....

Each year 80-90% of the pupils in ds1's school go on to the catchment school with a comfy uniform, exciting experiments at open day, very little homework, scrummy free food at open day ...
... 32% A-C GCSEs, "satisfactory" from Ofsted and myriad other undesirable facts I could mention.

Without any input from us this is the school he would end up at ... Erm... I don't think so.

I talked to DS1 about secondary schools quite early on (end of Year 4 iirc) looking at websites and considering what might be a reasonable basis for a decision (i.e. looking at subjects etc. rather than friends or food). His chosen school was one I hadn't initially considered. I don't think he was unduly swayed by bribery at open days - the one with the best free bikkies was the one we both loathed.

I don't think it is sensible to make a decision without heavily involving your child (he or she can often see things you can't) but if you actually tell your child or anyone else that he/she is making the decision, others may be keen to step in and make their mind up for them even if you are conscientiously keeping your nose out. The primary school pushed the local comp quite hard.

My daughter went to the local comp even tho' I'd moved house to get her into a better school catchment area.

As my school years were miserable because I was sent to a school I hated (posh private all girls) as opposed to the state comp where my friends went, we have done the opposite.
We let her choose but I said I wasn't happy about the school and gave her an ultimatum that it was up to her to ensure her grades stayed high, otherwise I'd move her to a better school.

2 years on; she loves school and her grades are fine, she's still at the top of her class so I think it's worth it.
Being with friends at that age is very important but so is getting the best education you can; your ds would make friends at any school I'm sure, but if he is the rebellious type and is forced into something against his will (as I was) then you may be making a rod for your own back!

wisteria - I had the same experience as a child. Which has made me a bit too keen on the local comp option perhaps. But there are different kinds of local comps.... we have a variety. Most of the parents at DS#s school are going to the nearest secondary without any consideration of other factors - DS seems to want us to do the same.

It's really difficult to know what to do isn't it? I still struggle with the decision sometimes as I worry about the GCSE grades not being great at the one she attends but she is happy and enjoys school which is half the battle at their age, maybe because it was her choice and maybe not.
I am sure you'll do the right thing for your ds. I think the worst thing for me was feeling I wasn't involved in any choice so maybe just talking to your son and ensuring he feels that his voice is listened to is the answer - who knows? It's a minefield......

I totally agree wisteria. I had no choice at all. We moved house a week before the last academic year before I went to senior school. I went to see the school 2 days after term started. The only input I had was my mum saying 'ooh isn't that lovely darling?' and 'isn't that a wonderful chemistry lab katie?' - and then we were in the HT's office, Dad shaking his hand and that was it! It was a big school, I was academically streets behind in some areas, I'd been at the other school since I was 4 and I was terrified, and I didn't even have the uniform to start with because it could only be bought from some snooty shop in Cheltenham FFS! I was very shy as a child and I spent the first year totally friendless and lonely. Lost my school friends and my home friends. And I will not let that happen to my kids. Which is why I think it worries me so much and why I value the fact that all the kids round here go to the same schools and have good long-standing friendships. It's a big issue for me (you may have noticed ).

Dd was in a class of 18, of which 10 were going to a school at which she had also been offered a place.

It was a big school - good results - but unless you are very bright or very pushy, we felt that it would be easy to 'get lost'.

We chose a smaller school, that we felt would suit her much more, but she was the only one from her year group who went there, and knew no-one else.

Although she worried, after the introductory day when she met some of the others, she began to feel more comfortable with the decision we had made.

Now, at 14, she is happy, settled and realises that we made the right decision for her.

Good luck!

OrmIrian
Wish I'd been at your school, we could have joined up! Maybe we'd have had a great time then and I wouldn't have been such a naughty rebel - as Fairyjay's experience suggests though, sometimes it works to do what you feel is right for your dcs. It all depends on how it's rolled out to them I think, and what sort of character your dcs have in the first place.