GCSE Options - academic child picking multiple creative options

[RedSkyLastNight]

DD is in Y8, but at her school they have a 3 year KS4, so she has to pick GCSE options next term. We haven't yet seen the Options blocks, but based on older DC

She will have to take 10 subjects.
Maths, English Lang, English Lit are compulsory
She has the choice of 2 or 3 Science GCSEs. DD hates Science and wants to do 2.

That leaves her with 5 subjects to choose. DD wants to pick GCSE Art, GCSE Music and BTEC Performing Arts. She is in the fortunate position of being genuinely good at everything and likely to get good marks in whatever she takes, however I feel that taking 3 creative subjects might be a creative subject too far for an academic child that has aspirations of going to University.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Will universities consider a students with more creative GCSE subjects, less favourably than one with fewer? Are there any other negatives (I did think she might struggle to pick 2 facilitating subjects as A Levels based on her GCSE choices as she hates maths and science).

My gut feeling is to dissuade her from one of the creative subjects (and tbh I'm slightly hoping the Option blocks may mean she has to) but is this just me being snobby and biased against creative subjects or is there a genuine reason to be wary (my strengths are all in maths and science; I'm not remotely creative and no idea where DD gets it from!)?

I too would look at grades achieved by children in the school. Rather than Art, Drama goes well with English. No university would dislike English, History and Drama at A level for entry to an English degree. That also includes Cambridge! I would reduce to 2 Art subjects and not do the BTec. Try and keep the Spanish going. That makes a more rounded group of subjects and you don’t need more Stem on top of 3 sciences and maths if you don’t see your career in this field! That would be 5 stem subjects!

Is drama the sort of subject which can readily be picked up at A level if not done earlier? (I'd have imagined so, but don't know). If so, not doing the BTEC wouldn't be closing doors, which is of course the main problem to be avoided in all of this.

The school unfortunately doesn't produce (well not that are publicly available) - I guess I could ask - grades broken down by subject.

However, I would suspect

• grades for Music are very good but it tends only to be keen musicians that take the subject (only 22 out of 240 in DS's year)

• the school is big on PA (regularly send students on to careers/further study in PA) but I think some DC do take the BTEC as a soft option, so I would suspect a spread of marks.

• not a clue about Art (I suspect a spread as for PA). DD's Art teacher did tell her in Y7 that if she continued on as she was doing she had a really good chance of an A at GCSE. Leaving aside the facts that A doesn't exist any more and this was not necessarily the wisest thing to tell a Y7 student, clearly they do get students achieving top grade.

She unfortunately doesn't have the choice of Drama GCSE or A Level at her current school (there is a Level 3 BTEC in PA, though her school is not keen on students mixing A Levels and BTECs - although they will allow if the timetable does!), but I am off to find out if other local schools do offer Drama at A Level and what their entry requirements might be...

I do think music is taken by able musicians for obvious reasons but we found art teaching and drama teaching can be hugely variable. Both my DDs did GCSE drama and, in the right school, it’s a terrific springboard for Drama A level. I don’t have info on schools allowing DC to do it without GCSE but one would think the BTec would be fine. Perhaps the music and the BTec might be the better combination?

Is drama the sort of subject which can readily be picked up at A level if not done earlier?

Yes. A lot of schools don’t offer GCSE drama so as long as someone has done experience from perhaps Youth theatre or LAMDA then it can be picked up at A level or Btec Level 3.

But bear in mind that drama isn't all acting. There is lot of written work.

If a young person has done something like LAMDA then there is a viva voce theory section.

I am a bit late to the discussion, but at dds school pupils are limited to only 2 creative subjects at GCSE.
Some subjects were earmarked for pupils of different abilities as well so BTEC/vocational options were aimed at pupils with average/below average ability (more able pupils may be able to do these only if there was enough space) and other options at pupils with higher ability.

At DSs school they are not advised to do certain things together. Art and DT for example is regarded as tough going in terms of time commitment. DS2 wants to be an architect and was keen to do both but has been told he'd have to think very carefully about it. They won't say no unless the timetables won't accommodate it but they do point out the downsides.

At Ds's school Art & DT are two options of the same spec so it is impossible to do both as they discount each other.

It's a 3 year GCSE course at my youngest's school as well but they have two rounds of options - in year 9 they have to study Maths, English, a language, a humanity, science, PE, RE and then can choose from DT, home economics, art, music, performing arts, child development or business studies.

In year 8 they do their first set of options - they can drop one language, one humanity, art, cooking or music - and then in year 9 they do their GCSE options and choose a pathway which is broadly speaking advanced academic, general academic or vocational plus 3 chosen GCSEs.

I am prayong my dc will chose drama GCSE! Just think how helpful that will be for faking confidence in the future boardroom/courtroom/classroom as a future CEO/barrister/teacher. If she adds history/geography and a foreign language it will be pretty balanced. Most universities expect 8 GCSE (Will only consider 8), so 7 facilitating subjects plus 1 creative sounds fine to me. What are her ideas for A levels? Or is she serious about art/drama school?

*Praying, fat finger syndrome

I am really surprised at how negative schools seem about creative subjects. My dds school very much encourages drama, music, art, dance, and textile design. They send 10-20% to Oxbridge each year and rest to Russel Group or art/drama school. Many who go on to art/drama/music school make a good career out of it. School has invested heavily in dancing/ drama/art/music facilities so obviously wants it used. If you swap 3 creative subjects for PE/RE/Critical Thinking, which many schools offer/demand, you'll end up with same amount of facilitating subjects than many others who are aiming for university but keep open the option of art/drama/music school.

Nelly - Someone did a FOI Request with various Russell Group Universities and for several RG Law Degrees the most common A level taken by students accepted onto the course was Drama.

I can see why it would feed into being a lawyer, actually! DD was startled to be told when reviewing drama shows that 'I didn't like it and thought it was awful/shoddy/under-rehearsed' was not a valid opinion, and that she had to find something to plead in favour of even the worst show.

Excellent practice for advocacy, I should think.

I am a lawyer and yes certain types of lawyer tend to be natural performers (although typically we are fairly conservative and 'academics focussed' and so whilst drama GSCE would be fine and helpful for some of the soft skills lawyers require, I certainly wouldn't recommend it at A level - unless possibly doing 4)

Many universities would disagree with you.

Possibly but they aren't the ones actually recruiting..

It would be a risky move since a lot of those recruiting would still regard it as a "doss" subject. DS is doing drama GCSE but I would dissuade him from doing it at Alevel if he wanted to do law (although I'd also dissuade him from doing law but that's another thread). DSis is head of creative arts at a large secondary and even she admits it would be a risky move and that drama is still regarded as an easy choice by many (although it isn't and can actually be harder to get very high marks).

I know a barrister whose first degree was music performance. And a defence solicitor who is also a trained actress.

A Level Drama is a lot of analysis of texts, body language & communication skills. A good friend of mine who was a solicitor but now lectures st uni rates it (but bemoans the standard of English in general that kids are applying with.

Quite possibly but I'm talking about general applicability to the masses.

Anyway..

@AlexanderHamilton but your on MN where actual facts and figures aren't as important as MN'ers opinions.... like those that are convinced that a BTEC will destroy any chance of getting into any uni never mind RG/Oxbridge, or unless 3 'facilitating' subjects are studied you will be stuck at sweeping streets

@AlexanderHamilton but your on MN where actual facts and figures aren't as important as MN'ers opinions.

The number of students accepted onto law degrees is not the same as the number of students who get training contracts or pupillages. Its quite frankly scandalous how many students are led to believe that they stand a good chance of a legal career when they don't. Slightly different point but I spent time earlier today talking to someone who is midway through law school and having no success in getting a training contract. Not surprising given her B,B,C A level results.

There will be plenty of people who go on to qualify as lawyers who didn't study law. Myself included. A law degree is not a prerequisite for law school. There are also people who change career. It is probably possible to find someone practising law in the UK who was previously a hairdresser. That doesn't mean that a level 3 qualification in hair and beauty is an advisable route if you know you want to study law.

The key is 3 excellent A levels. But like it or not (and clearly I sense that you do not ), lawyers are a judgmental bunch and many will assume, rightly or wrongly, that someone with an A in maths is more intellectually capable that someone with an A in drama.

But back to the point of the thread I don't think it matters at GCSE level. The key is to get top marks and the key to that IMO is doing subjects you enjoy without limiting your options.

doing subjects you enjoy without limiting your options

and the 'not limiting your options' point - ie ensuring that the education provided, particularly in Y9, remains broad and balanced, closing as few doors as possible - is really important.