How to make constructive suggestions to maths teacher

[greencatbluecat]

DD is 16 and in y12, studying 4 A Levels, including maths.

She is very bright, quietly confident and chilled. However, I found her crying over her maths homework today. This is most unusual for her, so I am worried. She had spent 2 hours on it and had done less than half. I asked her why she had so much and she told me that she has to catch up because the teachers have added an extra lesson but she can't ever go to it because it clashes with one of her other subjects. This seems very tough on her.

The teachers have said she can come to them if she wants help but I know she won't, so I am hoping the teachers can do something a little more proactive.

It's parents evening soon. What can I suggest as a constructive plan to make her feel more supported? I know teachers are massively overworked, so I want to bear this in mind and not be too demanding.

This does sound tough for your poor DD.

If new material is being introduced during this extra lesson, I would suggest asking the teacher if they could let your DD know, either by email or in person, which sections of her maths textbook she needs to read to cover the lesson, give her access to any questions the other students attempt in class and let her know about homework set. It’s imperative that she has a good record of what went on in her absence.

Are there others in the same position as DD? If there are, it might be worth asking about the possibility of a short lunchtime maths ‘surgery’ to go over new material/consolidate in this smaller group. I really don’t think asking for this is unrealistic, particularly in the circumstances you describe. My DS’s 6th form provides short lunchtime surgeries for those struggling with A-level maths in particular - and DD might find it easier to attend a timetabled session with others than seeking out an off-duty teacher informally.

My DS is at the same stage as your DD, also doing four subjects, including maths. He’s had some health issues and has already missed a couple of weeks of teaching and is scrambling to catch up. It’s not easy. There’s a feeling that the A-level juggernaut lumbers onwards regardless of the personal circumstances of individuals. You and your DD have my sympathies and I hope you can find a solution to make things a little easier.

My son was doing 4 a levels and he too is v able. He dropped one at the beginning of the second year and he hadn't even reached struggling point. He just knew that universities ask for 3 so it made sense. He loved the subject he dropped but just decided to read books about it instead.

Why doew ahe always miss Maths? Could she alternate missing the other subject?

I echo the wisdom of doing 4 A levels when uni entry offers are usually based on 3. What are the other subjects and what does she hope to read at uni?

As the mum of a yr 13 doing 4 a levels and a yr 12 doing 3, one of which is maths my advice is 1. She has to grow up a little (I know this is hard) and ask for help. 2. You won’t get anywhere with sch re the timetable change - time tabling is set in stone. Instead I’d advice her to either alternate between the subjects which she misses/goes to (if sch allow) or go to the maths.
I had yr 12 parents evening last night and the maths teacher was offering for our ds (and all maths students) to e mail her with problems, go see her in their study frees and if they’re on a study free to go sit in on any of her maths lessons just so she’s on hand or they’re in a quiet study supportive environment to do the maths. There is a big jump to a level maths and it catches nearly all students out - practise and staying calm is the key.

Piggywaspushed
But whether it's right or not depends on what the 'lesson' is.

If it's a timetabling error then it's for school to fix (though I would be surprised so late in the year and timetable issues are not simple. Many schools have already started mapping out basic overviews now and staffing starts to be worked out in January for the following September).

If it's a getting through content issue then the teacher needs to look at their planning to ensure no new content is being delivered in this optional extra class and content is in all the main lessons.

If it's a consolidation lesson in the teacher's PPA when they're going through exercsies to help the student then I'm not sure what the complaint would be: it's not fair that they offer extra help but it's not convenient for my child therefore they shouldn't offer it? or I want my child to do well at maths and part of that is doing exercises and problems but my child is having to do them in their own time, just like other students who have given up a free to do it?

If a student is struggling in 6th form then they need to speak to the teacher. Personally, I find it a bit ridiculous when you get calls from parents in 6th form and the student hasn't been to see staff.

I genuinely think there can be a bit of a martyrdom issue going on with this kind of thing. The curriculum should be taught in the lessons available. No child should be disadvantaged!

I ususally agree with you maisy but I ahve a sixth form child. they don't stop being a child at 16(in reality) and they don't stop being my concern. I will fight their corner passionately if I need to! And this situation doesn't sound right.

... and , as i said, if she goes to her maths teacher she might get 5-maybe 15- minutes help.It's not the same thing as a lesson.

I'm no fan of endless additional sessions and think most things can be done through planning and then setting targeted independent study (I expect my A level students to be doing independent study on top of homework).

At 16 they aren't an adult, but the whole point of 6th form is it's a half way house between school and university so taking the approach of don't speak to staff, tell mum and get mum to call up isn't really appropriate (and usually ends up with some WTF moments in school).
With the best will in the world, most of my y7 students are able to ask a teacher for some help & I've had many a ks3 student politely and reasonably raise issues with homework, seating plan etc. If the vast majority of my 11-14 year olds can manage it then it is ridiculous in my eyes when 6th formers don't.

The teacher really should be using that extra lesson as reinforcement rather than to teach new content if it isn’t accessible to all students.

I do this with my sixth formers. Offer them an extra lesson but it clashes for some so we do exam question practice on topics we have already covered rather than teach anything new.

Thanks all. Some helpful thoughts here.

The lesson was only added in about 2 or 3 weeks ago. It's not an 'official' timetabled lesson.

@MaisyPops DD has not raised the issue with me. I'm raising it here because I could see that she was very stressed and I didn't know what to suggest.

So, OP, I'm a bit confused... why DID he teacher add it in? What's the rationale? And does eevery other student go? Do they learn new things, or is it revision/ support? Is she told she HAS to catch up?

I think we need more detail...

I think if your daughter is reluctant to ask for help you should use this as an opportunity to explain why that is necessary life skill. And also help her work out what the issue with the TT is- I wouldn’t want to do it myself but I’m sure she’d appreciate you talking it through with her.

OP
But she's mentioned it's over maths work and you're looking at following it up.
Until a 6th former has spoken to the teacher then any parental involvement on this so overkill in my opinion and enabling them to avoid independence. As I've said, your average KS3 child can ask for help.

Piggywaspushed
I agree that we need more detail.
It could be a big issue or it could be a similar ludicrous situation I found myself in one year.
Claim - X's mum doesn't think its reasonable for you to be adding in lessons and setting excessive independent study. X is spending hours and hours on their coursework. X is overwhelmed and stressed and not coping in college because of all this additional work.

Reality - I told students to work on coursework out of lesson as part of independent study (standard part of A Levels). I told them when my room was free if they wanted to work in there and have me on hand if they had questions.

How awful of me to offer help to students and offer a quiet study space for them.

@MaisyPops thank you. I'm looking for advice and your comments have helped.
I posted on here because I was worried about DD. She is chilled and it is most unusual for her to be stressed.

@Piggywaspushed I don't know why the teacher has added it. They are all good questions you ask and are ones that I shall seek to clarify, so you have helped too. Thank you.

DD has certainly given me the impression that everyone except her attends and that it is compulsory for her to catch up.

Not a problem OP.
I hope I haven't seemed short or anything (It's been a long day). I know I feel quite strongly about 6th formers starting to demonstrate initiative and independence.

I only say that as I've had many a conversations with parents of stressed 6th formers when the parent's understanding of the situation is not quite the reality. (E.g. member of staff sets some exercises and says students need to use some of them to do independent study and one student gets stressed doing all of them / staff offer an additional revision session for those who want it but make material available so nobody is disadvantaged, one student takes that as well obviously the teacher really wanted me to do everything from the session).
If she speaks to the teacher first and gives you a better picture of what the lessons are for then you're in a better position for raising things with school if need be. Otherwise the default response tends to be 'and have they spoken to the teacher?'.

The extra lesson won’t be teaching them anything new. It will be catchup session.

Your daughter needs to at least try and sort this out herself, by actually speaking to her teachers/hoy/tutor

She should also consider dropping a subject if 4 is too much work.

Also, there will be a bazillion resources available to her from the school, library and internet. She needs to help herself.

If she is given work, struggles, tries to find more resources, talks to her teachers and is still struggling, then she needs to think about dropping the subject

I'm sorry to the teachers here but I had a 17/18 year old recovering from MH problems in Y12/13 having dropped out of Y12 the year before as a result. Sometimes parents do have to advocate and good schools understand that.

There were reasons we chose the 2nd 6th form and the school knew why. Sometimes it was a bumpy ride. But the school was v supportive academically and pastorally and should have been. She dropped 4 UMS and was in the photo of A* students - and they expected me to drive her back for it to help their reputation.

She's doing v well at a well known Oxbridge college. Partly due to the marvelloys and supportive school. A school that wouod have been happy to constructively listen and support the op's dd's situation.

Not all high performers are active enough and confident enough. Dd's gap year paid dividends.

OP, if she's stressed that is really worth mentioning to the teacher. Some students (particularly older ones) are so good at covering up in lessons it can be hard to tell. Whether to do that at parents' evening is a judgement call. If DD will be there with you (like most schools) I'd suggest arranging a different time. While I agree with maisy that 6th form is a time for developing independence, it's no bad thing for it to take the full two years. So I'd speak to the HoY to discuss the timetabling, and speak to the teacher separately from DD to discuss strategies to help her stress levels down. And talk to DD to keep her in the loop and so she understand the process.

@MaisyPops it's obviously the right thing if 6th formers develop independence. Trouble is I don't think DD fully understands the issue or knows how to start solving it. As I said in an earlier post, she would have no problem with, for example, seeing the teacher and asking how to answer some questions. She is actually fairly confident as a rule.

I'm certainly planning on 'oiling the wheels' by asking DD and the teacher a few questions based on the discussion here. However, I will most probably send DD to talk to the teacher in the end.

The discussion here has helped because I wasn't sure of what questions to ask myself, so it's not too surprising a 16yo feels unsure about tacking it. Also, I certainly do not want to piss off the teacher, hence this discussion is useful again. Have a great evening!

Piggy, not sure why you've assumed that it would be a rushed 15 minute session from a teacher?
Most of my entire lunchtimes (same with colleagues/ colleagues in other schools) are taken up with offering pupils extra help, seeing me in the office etc. No point in repeating the excellent points Maisy has raised but if there is an extra session that has to be slotted in, whether scheduled or not, it can be impossible for a teacher to cover all pupils.
OP, hope it gets sorted for you and DD.

Because teachers time is precious and we are entitled to our breaks and in my frees I plan and mark.. With the best will in the world , if a student came to me for extra help, outside of a scheduled one hour lesson, I think it is unlikely I would be able to devote a whole hour to them : that should be happening in the lesson .