Public thinks teachers work fewer hours and are paid more than they actually are

[noblegiraffe]

The global survey of how society views teachers has found that people in the UK think that teachers work fewer hours than they actually do and are paid more than they actually are.

But interestingly, they think that teachers should be paid more than the pay they’ve overestimated.

So how much would they think teachers should be paid if they had an accurate view of the hours involved?!

Interestingly, support for performance-related pay for teachers has plummeted since the last survey 5 years ago, from about 3/4 support to 1/3. Unfortunately, this is unlikely to remove performance related pay.

www.tes.com/news/british-public-thinks-teachers-deserve-ps7500-pay-rise

Depends if you see yourself as a profession that does what it needs to in order to get the job done or workers that count hours. Many people work long hours and plenty do not get the same holiday entitlement or pension, but might get a higher salary and pay back more of their student loan as a result! What people perceive is often far from the truth and salary isn’t the only part of the employment package, as you well know!

Are you saying that a benefit of low pay as a teacher is not having to pay back as much of your student loan?

@noblegiraffe to be honest I think teachers work similar if not better hours to many other professions day to day, but get more time off with half term summer Easter and Christmas holidays and therefore have a slightly "lower" salary to recompense the extra holiday time

You’re responding to a post about a survey that has found that the public underestimates the amount of hours teachers work by reckoning that they don’t work that many hours?

I've worked in both the private sector in marketing and as a primary school teacher. I can confirm that even with the holidays (which you have to work through in order to fit everything in), the hours are definitely longer and harder in teaching. I get in at 7.30 and work without stopping until 6.30. I deliberately don't drink enough because I don't have time to go the loo, I rarely eat lunch because stopping would mean taking work home in the evenings, which I avoid as much as possible. There are no "slow" periods, but more intense, fraught periods through the year. There's always about three to four hours of work to do on a Sunday.
I'm paid half what my professional friends are paid, who have had the same level of education and study as I.
It is my choice. I love my job. I am never bored and I'll be doing this job for as long as I can manage. Working with children is a privilege.

The worst part of the job is the frequent accusations that we are overpaid, barely work and have too much holiday. I work so hard and it is upsetting to have so many strangers devaluing all I do for my children.

Now teachers are paid by performance and have no pay portability when changing schools I can see that in the fiture many younger/newer staff will never reach UPS as school budgets are under such pressure. This will leave many earning well under £30k even after several years in the job. Pretty crap really. Long holidays don't really help much if you can't afford to go anywhere!

Are you serious Tropicana1?!
I don’t think you understand the point of the article or the thread?

They work lots of hours in term time and some hours in the holidays. Overall it’s not much different to other professionals and yes, lower pay means less grad tax. That’s a fact. Employers also contribute forwards a good pension: fact. It’s also a profession where part time in senior roles is possible, especially in primary schools and is very family friendly as a result. You are, as usual, Noble, cherry picking what you want to project. Teachers are paid reasonably well if all elements are taken into account, especially at the top end. You cannot ignore pension and longer holidays that even out the hours during the term. It’s a package and it doesn’t matter one jot about public perception. They possibly were not given all the facts. One thing that’s for certain, grads who want to be teachers actually get a job! No coffee shops for them.

I’m a teacher and haven’t been able to afford a holiday for 3 years.
Thank goodness for £9.50 holidays from the newspapers at least we got a weekend away in Hastings last February!
I’m definitely not paid enough!!

@noblegiraffe I responded by saying I feel that the hours they work are on par with other professions.
For example, as a vet I work 10 hour days as standard, often with no lunch break because of work commitments. I do one on call a week where I could come in 3 times in the night at all hours, and be expected to work as normal the next day 8.30-6.30. In addition to this I work Saturday mornings in a 3 week rolling rota 8.30-12. I work a full weekend on call once a month all Saturday and all Sunday, followed by a normal week of work, with one day off to compensate. I regularly work "overtime" as clearly you can't abandon animals just because it's time to go home, and get paid noting for the extra hours. I get 22 days holiday a year. I work Christmas, New Years and don't get time off in lieu. The starting salary for a vet is anywhere between 22,000 up to a rarely seen maximum starting salary of 28/30000. My maternity package when I choose to have children will be 6 weeks at 90% pay then statuary pay (approx £400 per month after tax,NI and student loans)

So yes, I feel teachers don't work longer hours than other professions, have excellent benefits in terms of maternity packages, and get paid well for it.

@LookingThroughTheLookingGlass yes I'm serious please see my above post

£30,000 isn’t that bad when other elements are taken into account. If two teachers earn £30,000 each that’s a very decent joint salary to acquire a mortgage and buy a house in most area “up north”. Down south, teachers will get more if they are good. Many jobs don’t get increments every year either through performance. If the firm cannot afford it, you don’t get it. Never mind how good you are! Many had 0% for years in the depression. No increments, no 1% - nothing!

It obviously depends how and what professions you compare. Marketing isn’t quite the same as many don’t have post grad qualifications that do it. You really have to compare professions where degrees are mandatory.

I work 12+ hour days and no task is ever finished.
The job is destroying me bit by bit. I love the actual teaching but the high stakes agenda is crushing me bit my bit.

Teaching is not family friendly! How many teachers will miss their own children’s Christmas plays this year and spend their weekends planning or marking?

I’m not a teacher and I absolutely think teachers work far too many hours and are significantly underpaid. Just because other jobs and professions may be difficult too doesn’t mean it should be a race to the bottom.

I’m not remotely surprised that in general people think you have easy hours though . Not that I am in any position to change things but I also despise performance related pay.

@Tropicana1 are you saying that your employer is giving you less than the legal minimum holiday leave (5.6 weeks /28 days) ? Because of that is the case, it's really not fair to compare that to what anyone else, teacher or otherwise gets.

£30,000 isn’t that bad

Where do you get £30k from? You have to be MPS 5 before you break the £30k barrier and as you know, lots of teachers have quit before then.

It’s also a profession where part time in senior roles is possible

Explain why I’m denied promotion because I’m part time then?

I’m a bit confused by the response to a survey about public perceptions of teacher workload and pay that goes ‘vets work hard’. Not really the point?

Saying that people paid less are lucky because they pay back less of their student loan need to learn some basic economics, because by that logic anyone earning under the personal allowance tax threshold is "luckier" than someone on £60,000pa.

Honestly.

Tropicana, you're comparing being on call to anywhere from 1-4 hours of unpaid marking, every single night of the week.

I've been a care worker. I've been on call. It's not "working". It's "being paid to be available and not drink" unless you get a call. This isn't the same as spending that time actually working.

So your on-call weekend translates to three days off in a week, unless you actually have to field more than 10 hours of on-call work during the weekend.

You do work less hours than most teachers. Sorry.

@bananasandwicheseveryday I get 22 days holiday a year, then I work some bank holidays and have some off. I get no extra time off for the bank holidays I do work. There are 8 bank holidays this year of which I have worked / will work 3 leading to 27 days after bank holidays. Because I get one day off every month in lieu of a weekend worked I don't qualify for 28 days holiday as holiday entitlement is calculated based on your working week length

And vets get paid significantly more than teachers if you really want to compare.

@sethis - not including the summer holidays, Christmas holidays,Easter holidays and half terms you mean, where I'm still doing my hours and they aren't. I have 6 friends who are teachers, trust me they work less hours than me.

@CuckooCuckooClock really? So my cohort who all started on between£22000 and £26000 per year and are all still sub £35000 are getting paid more than teachers?

Also @sethis you have clearly had a very different experience "on call" - I am in work the usual hours on Saturday and Sunday, plus often through the night too.

Well if you want to pick a sample with no evidence of how representative it is then ok. I started on less than £22k, in central London, and I still earn less than £30.
I thought vets were more intelligent.