Surrey Independent Schools for Boys

[Iwishiwasonabeach99]

Hi! Have just started process of looking at senior schools for DS1 and trying to get a handle on the lay of the land.....what do you recon is the current view on how do the following senior schools rank in terms of how "academic" they are:

Kings College School
St Johns Leatherhead
Epsom
Reeds
Hampton
Claremont
Halliford
RGS
St George's
City of London Freemans

I grew up around here so I have very outdated views which I think I need to shed!!!

Thank-you!

I would say (but may be totally wrong..)

Kings
Hampton & RGS
Reeds & Epsom
Then not sure..

But never as simple as that- I know boys that have got into Kings but not Hampton etc etc.

Others such as St Johns are 'less academic' but can be tricky to get into as v popular and Co Ed and perfect for the right child!

Good luck! Generally all works out in the end!

Do you want 11 or 13 entry? You are missing Kingston Grammar from your list which lies below Hampton/RGS but above Reeds/Epsom. But yes I can say from experience of my ds's class at 1 of the schools listed that Kings Wimbledon is the hardest to get into. The rugby v football choice drives many decisions too.

Also Whitgift for the sporty.

So things haven’t changed too much in terms of the general pecking order....it does seem that everywhere is hard to get into these days....Many moons ago you used to be able to go to Reeds or St John’s by just registering!

13+ entry......

We applied last year and this would be my take on it:
Kings College School
RGS
Hampton
City of London Freemen's
Kingston Grammar
Reeds
Epsom
St Johns Leatherhead
St George's
Claremont

Halliford - don't know anything about this school

However, I know boys who turned higher ranking offers for St John's and Epsom and the fact that very able boys now sit for both has made it harder to get into both. My DS sat last year for Epsom, St John's and CLFS and received offers from all three. He said CLFS ' papers were the hardest of the three.

Epsom and St John's are seen as more sporty I think whereas CLFs is seen as more academic.

King's and RGS are both very competitive and are all boys.

It is worth considering journey time and mode of travel. The trains are awful at the moment - delays, cancellations and running fast missing stops out.

Is your son at a prep school? If so, you should get a good steer from them.

We're applying at the moment so I know what our prep head has said and what she's advised for different boys. My view would be:

KCS
RGS/Hampton
St Georges/COLF
St John's/Epsom
Reed's
Halliford
Claremont

Not scientific and smaller drops between some of the groups of schools than others I think.

HTH!

I would use the govt league tables for data because they are the only ones prepared independently. I have added their approx. ranking and put them into groups of similar schools that people tend to choose according to where they live. E.G. No-one living in Guildford will travel to Wimbledon to attend a school 16 places up the league tables and the decision to go to KCS/RGS changes around Cobham.

Group 1 Kings 2, RGS 17, Hampton 45

Group 2 CLFS 57, Epsom 75, St Georges top 125, St Johns top 125, Reeds top 175

Group 3 Claremont top 200, Halliford top 1,000

You didn't name Kingston Grammar but it was 108 on last years list.

Although I've put CLFS in group 2 with the other co-eds, some families specifically looking for a co-ed may take it in preference to group 1 schools; it is a very good school.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=all-england&for=16to18&orderby=ks5.0.TALLPPE_ALEV_1618&orderdir=asc&datatype=integer&sortpolicy=inversepolicy

So everyone seems agreed that KCS, RGS and Hampton are at the top and the likes of Halliard and Claremont are at the bottom.....but there seems to be various different opinions about the rest that sit in the middle.

DS' prep school head has advised him to go for the top tier schools but DS2 (who is a year younger) is slightly less academic and ideally I want to get them both into the same school. Our prep school head is horrified that we would "sell DS1 short" to accommodate our other son but for many reason I really want them together so I'm trying to find something that would be challenging enough for DS1 that they will both get into. Many years ago the gap between the top tier and the second tier was huge so I was hoping that gap had closed a bit in recent years.

KGS I'd ruled out because they don't play rugby.

I would have thought based upon league tables that CLFS and Epsom were next in terms of being academic so its interesting that some people think Reeds is higher up? Is this a recent thing? I don't really know much about St George's although a few kids have recently moved to our prep school from there because it wasn't academic enough and they wanted support in moving at 13+.

Also I have heard lots of stories from parents in the higher year groups of lots of the local prep schools saying that St Johns has suddenly become really really hard to get into and top set boys were being turned down last year?!...

Its all so confusing and i really want to do right by both my boys.

Watching this one with interest!

St James senior is not included in the list above, is that because is not well regarded? Where would it sit? With Claremont / Halliford?

Thank you for your opinions!

St George’s is definitely academic.

They play rugby, not soccer.

Having taught at Epsom, I would put them below St George’s.

Crafty gin - can you elaborate? It’s difficult to tell when you just have league tables to go by and one school scores so much higher than another....

Epsom is very much all ability, whereas St George’s has quite strict entrance requirements, including students from their own prep school.

They are very different schools though. Epsom is a boarding school and is very full on (exhausting) even for day students. It also has a high proportion of overseas students.

If these were the only two schools in the running, I wouldn’t choose between them based on their academics.

If looking for a day school, I would consider how easy it is to get to as one of the initial criteria.

St Johns Leatherhead has completely changed in last 3 years and last year had the pick of the top dc sitting for age 11 entry, dc turned down RGS, Reeds, KGS, SHS to go there because it offers something extra that parents love. In particular for girls it offers sport on a Saturday if you want it whilst at many of the girls schools you need to be club level to get a look in at a hockey/netball team. Rowan Prep sent more girls to St Johns this Sept than any other school which shows you how highly its rated by parents and head teachers alike. Also because of the flexi boarding/ direct bus element its attracting dc from Richmond and and Putney etc. It's very popular with Hurlingham Prep etc. Overall it means it's much harder for Prep heads to guarantee a successful outcome due to volume of dc sitting the entrance exam (part of which is on a computer).

"Pucela", St James's in on a par with Halliford, it's just due to location it doesn't attract Surrey based parents as they tend to have Claremont/Radnor/Halliford instead. There was a thread last Spring for parents of ds who had no offers and how St James's laid on an extra entrance exam session in March and gave feedback within days and how kind and thoughtful they were to parents and ds's alike.

CraftyGin - I'm still not sure how Epsom can be so high on the government league tables if it isn't academic and takes all abilities....surely this is something to be excited about (i.e. a school that can turn out great results without necessarily having all the brightest kids to begin with).

Teacakesandcoffee01 - this is exactly what I've been hearing about St Johns and is what my prep school head has also said. If its true then this could be the perfect "in between" option for my DSs. However I am having difficulties banishing my memories of what the school was like 5 - 10 years ago and the current league table results aren't backing up the claims either.

There’s lots of smoke and mirrors with league tables. Don’t rely on them. When my DSs were at SGC, they had a big fat zero in the league tables.

A grade 8/9 student will achieve those grade in almost any independent school. This means you do not have to strive for the best school academically, ahead of other key criteria.

For me, choosing a senior school would rank:

1. Day vs boarding
2. If day, student able to get there independently
3. Co-ed vs single sex
4. Selective vs non-selective
5. Leavers’ destinations
6. Extra curricular

Epsom is a fantastic school, btw.

The link to results is for 16 to 18 as GCSE results are still hard to compare as many schools are still doing igcse and IB. Sixth form results are a slightly flawed measure as the school has much control over who sits what i.e. excluding students if they are weak at certain subjects. I would go to schools' websites and look at IB/GCSE results by subject over 2 or 3 years. See what the trend is - are some subjects consistently weak?

Both St John's and Epsom won't see their first 11-13 cohort sit gcse exams until 2021, so it is tricky to judge how much this will impact results. Certainly, they hope the 11plus entry will attract stronger candidates especially girls.

Epsom is moving much more to 50/50 boarding as in the past they were rejecting able day candidates but accepting less able boarding candidates. Historically Epsom has taken a lot of very able girls from other schools at 16, and if this is still the case it could account in part for the results.

When I was at Epsom three years ago, I would have thought that it was 50:50 day to boarding, but the culture was very much full boarding, ie late preps and activities till 10pm, as well as Saturday school.

If I wanted a day school, I would not choose Epsom. A day place is there to save money - same as any other boarding school, such as Charterhouse (also in Surrey).

Grades matter of course but academically able kids with involved parents do well at any school, even (shock horror) state schools! Look at a school that fits with your family, so that will take both your dc's, if it's a day school proximity matters, either for you to drive, or public/school bus routes. Then there's the culture of the school, some are very elitist, others embrace a more diverse student body (yes they are rich enough to pay fees but they aren't all landed gentry!)

I love that at my DD's boarding school (sixth form only) 80% came from state schools and most receive bursaries, as we do. They can still mix with the real world even though they are quite privileged to attend such a great place.

I agree that there is a huge overlap between the ability of DCs in these schools, but the govt league tables of results attained should give a good indication of how selective they are which was OPs question.

I totally agree OP that picking a school to suit both boys is the best way forward, it is something I regret not doing with DS and DD (DS2 just started boarding and doesn't overlap with DS1 at all).

Just been googling websites! Epsom’s gcse’s were very impressive (not kcs/RGS impressive but still excellent) and the leavers destinations seem mainly Russell
Group although only 1 Oxbridge.
St. George’s looks similar. St John’s and Reeds GCSEs aren’t as good and Reeds university destinations are definitely less impressive....st John’s don’t have any specifics. Will be interesting to see how this changes next year...

CraftyGin - what is an 8/9 student? Just reread that and my curiosity is piqued...