Selective grammar or private school?

[Meggy12]

My DD has just been offered a place at a selective grammar 45 minutes away and a selective independent school 15 minutes away. The independent school has small class sizes but their results are nowhere near as impressive as the selective grammar. Also, I heard the kids can be quite snobby at the independent school so it is not ideal in that respect either, as well as the £12K per year cost!

However, I think her life would be simpler at the independent school and a whole lot less tiring. I'm worried if she will have the energy to do her homework after a long day at school and being away from home from 7:30am to 5pm. While the state grammar school will stretch her, is there any point in over-stressing an 11-year old? Some kids do well anywhere, don't they?

Incidentally our grammar (superselective - catchment doesn't feature) has a lot of students doing 7.30am or earlier until 5pm or later and the vast majority seem fine. We're very close to the school but the bus takes a very circuitous rural route so they do 8am to 4.15pm despite being only a tiny bit over three miles away, so very little different. It's never been a problem - lots of kids actually enjoy the bus travel with friends.

Thanks MarchingFrogs, she's due to start high school in September 2019, but we need to apply for a Grammar school place by the end of October. The indie school want a deposit of £2500 by the end of December, which I'm finding a bit cheeky as actual offers from grammar schools won't come out till March 1st.

She got 332 points in the grammar school entrance test, while last year’s entry score was 314. Entry is entirely based on entrance tests, rather than catchment. Can I be reasonably sure she'll be offered a grammar school place and not pay the indie school deposit? In the past, the indie school was not over-subscribed, there was a few spaces left in each year, but guess there is no guarantee for next year.

If you go to www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/index.php and ask in your area about her score, you should get some good advice.

Personally, I'd say 45 minutes journey was fine. Good luck!

Hmm, why would you want to choose a private school which is 3 x the distance , produces significantly worse results and pay £12k+ pa for the privilege? Seriously, you would need more money than sense not to choose the significantly better performing grammar which is a lot nearer and free!

Usually, it’s more of a dilemma in that the private school is the best in the area by a mile but it’s a distance away plus paying school fees is a stretch!

I think that if I had the luxury of choice, I would still choose the grammar in your circumstances.

Hmm, why would you want to choose a private school which is 3 x the distance , produces significantly worse results and pay £12k+ pa for the privilege? Seriously, you would need more money than sense not to choose the significantly better performing grammar which is a lot nearer and free!

I could agree more. It sounds like your daughter has done really well on the entrance tests. Paying for a significantly worse school when she has no additional needs seems like madness unless you’re under the impression that paying is automatically better which in this case sounds like it really isn’t. My kids are out 7.30 - 5, it’s totally fine

Sorry I think you misunderstood myron and Amaaboutthis, the private school is about 3 miles away or 15-20 minutes on a school bus. The grammar school is 17 miles away and can be done in 35 minutes with no traffic, but it normally takes 45 minutes to an hour on a school bus. It's worth pointing out that there is a school bus with a pickup stop 5 minute walk away, so she won't need to use public transport to get there. I'm leaning towards grammar school but DH is yet to be convinced, at least he says he's keeping an open mind ahead of the open day on Wednesday. Thanks again for all your replies, appreciate it.

I still think it’s a no brainier if I am honest, if there’s a bus stop nearby.

Why not start st the Grammar and then review again in Year 8 for entry at Year 9 to the independent school if things aren't working out? Most independent schools have a year 9 entry point.

she won't need to use public transport to get there

But can she, though (to/from either school)? Or will she be dependent on you to be able to pick her up from any after school activity she wants to take part in?

I am wondering whether the indie is playing on parents' insecurities by rushing through its selection procedure so early in the year and demanding an acceptance deposit now. Do a lot of people pay up, but then just forfeit the money by pulling out on March 1st when their DC get a grammar place after all (to be replaced with another £2500 from someone on their waiting list, or an opportunistic applicant, who wasn't 'successful' in the state system)?

I know it doesn’t help you but a couple of years ago the 3 Grammars near us changed their system so you knew your Grammar score before you had to apply for the non selective schools, made it a lot easier.

I have a child at each (although the independent is very selective and the results are better than the grammar).

Some pros of the independent:
Longer holidays (they get really tired as both schools work them hard)
More extra curricular - both in terms of clubs and also days going off curriculum/visiting speakers/trips etc
More support- smaller classes, sixth form mentors etc
Extra languages
More flexibility over GCSE options

Some pros of the grammar:
Wider mix of children
More transparent grading system - easier to work out progress
Cheaper uniform
Less traditional, eg computing, product design etc are big - but not available at the independent
Use tech more eg homework app, behaviour points/merits available to see online etc
Shorter school day

To be honest though, some of these are specific to the schools in question. For us the independent is nearer but ds didn’t get in so we went for the grammar for him. Both are doing well and I’m happy with both schools. Dd has a bursary but I’m still secretly relieved we’re not paying anything for ds!

@Hoppinggreen, selective schools are obliged to do this - or at least, give enough information to allow parents to make an informed choice wrt expressing their preferences - in order to comply with the law (in the form of the Admissions Code). It's not something that the schools will have done out of the goodness of their heart. And the OP mentioned that their DD has a score, several points above the previous year's cut off. Unless there has been a massive hike in the number of candidate's sitting the exam this year, or something has happened locally which means that a large number of those with higher scores will no longer name a different school as a higher preference on their CAF, it does look like the score should be sufficient to secure a grammar school place.

Meggy12 the request for £2500 as a non refundable deposit from a not particularly impressive indie is something which would ring big alarm bells to me. They must be desperate - and trying to tie people in. That's a huge deposit. DD4 was offered a place at a top indie for sixth form last year as we were considering moving and their deposit was only £500, which is bad enough. I bet you anything you like the indie will have spare places in March. Our local middling indie always 'manages to squeeze' DC in in March. You wouldn't think they possibly could from their glossy marketing bumph but they do! Don't be a mug! (unless you actively prefer the indie).

Incidentally I second MarchingFrogs - your DDs score should see her comfortably into the grammar, given the previous year's score.