Kingsdale School banding tests - how does this work?

[JuneMyNameIsJune]

I can see dates on the website but not an explanation of how this works.

Do you name the school on the CAF and they contact you after the final date?

There are two banding test dates in September - do parents have to request a banding test before submitting the CAF?

Yes, you need to contact their admissions office. Your child sits the test in Sept/Oct previous to you applying by end Oct.

But 5/7 dates are in November/December - after CAF submission.

That makes me wonder if they also contact people to sit banding tests after submission of the CAF?

Yes, because you can apply before sitting the test. You can sit the banding test before or after application. You request to sit the test, they won't proactively ask you to do it.

It doesn't matter; all the school need to know is where your child came in the tests when they come to do the overall rankings of all children for admissions which won't be probably until Jan.

Thanks for that - just emailed them.

I bet some parents don't realise they need to request this though. I was wondering if they wait and see who applies and contact the cohort after submission.

I haven't applied for Kingsdale but have for several schools nearby in Lambeth. The banding test for those is on Nov 10th. For those you apply for the schools on the CAF but have to also fill out a Supplemently Information Form (SIF) that is given to each school and then they contact you with info about when/where. Check if Kingsdale needs a SIF. Also the SIFs for the schools had to be in earlier than the closing date for the CAF (1 had to be in last Friday, 2 this Friday).

(is it just me or does it feel like you have fallen into a tin of Alphabetty Spagetti with all these blimmin forms)

I feel like my life is one big black hole of school visit's, form filling, and ridiculous nuances in admissions procedures. It's like the very worst part-time job ever, especially as there's no pay .

I am also sick to death of looking at identical maths/english/spanish etc. classrooms.

I exchanged some emails with Kingsdale about this. They told me that so long as you name the school on your CAF, you will receive an invite to sit the banding test in November. The early (September) dates are for families who want to know which band their child came in. Though why you would wish to know this i have no idea and i also can't see how they can tell you, as surely they band the children after they have all sat the test according to the distribution of scores for that particular cohort of children, rather than having predetermined cutoffs? Agree the info on the website is remarkably unclear, also so for the dates/deadlines for the scholarship process, though that's another story. I also THINK (but do double-check) that for Kingsdale you only had to do a SIF if your child was applying for a scholarship.

So everyone entering the lottery has to take the banding test, but it has no impact on the lottery? Seems like a massive waste of time for them. What if a child doesn't take the banding test? Are they out of the lottery?

Kingsdale admissions seems to be a whole planet to itself.

Everyone that applies to the school has to take the banding test - the school sent a letter confirming the date (in December) of the test.

The banding test doesn’t have anything to do with the lottery - as stated in the admissions criteria, The test is only used to determine each child’s ability band.

All students are seen as equal when being selected during the lottery - when selected, they will be assigned a position on the admission list no matter which band they are in.

For example, a child in the highest band could be position 25 on the admission list, but a child in the lowest band could be position 3.

The school sets in Maths, English & Science from the first day in year 7, and they use the results from the banding test and each child’s SATS results to determine the set they will go into.

I see that 2,800 children applied last year for 300 spots. How it makes sense to test 2,800 applicants with a 9% chance of getting in is beyond me.

It might not make sense, but I know they do test before a place is offered.

The same way that they assess everyone who applies for a sports and/or music scholarship. The school doesn’t know which position they will be listed on each children’s CAF form - or if they even are listed at all. But they still perform numerous sport and music assessments anyway.

Ok I get it but I would question the use of local authority resources. And what if you don't take the test? Nothing says you're kept out of the lottery. (as far as I can see)

Kingsdale is by no means the only school that uses fair banding as part of its admission arrangements so its criteria are not as unusual as some people on this thread seem to think.

I would question the use of local authority resources

The tests are run by the school. No local authority resources involved.

And what if you don't take the test

This is covered in their Admissions Policy. If you don't take the test you are ranked at the bottom of the list of applicants after the lottery has taken place (i.e. you don't go into the lottery and are ranked after all the candidates that do go into the lottery). In simple terms, that means you have no chance of getting a place.

Yes if you name Kingsdale anywhere on the form then your child will be invited to sit the test and given a date, you don’t have to ask for it or book it in. (We went through this 2 years ago).
It does also seem like a big waste of time to me! Surely the school have better things to do than test over 2,000 children....along with all the sport and music scholarship tests surely it must be a big drain on resources.

Other schools do banding tests too, the Harris Academies I think?

“So everyone entering the lottery has to take the banding test, but it has no impact on the lottery? “

It had an impact insofar as there are essentially 3 lotteries, one for each band.

They take an equal number of children within each band. Within each ability band they first allocate those who meet the top priorities: Looked After / siblings / scholarships. Then any remaining places are allocated by lottery.

I thought I read somewhere that schools that allocate places by Lottery should do a fresh draw every time a place climes up, which would mean they can never actually tell you where you are on the waiting list. However, those seems not to be the case.

I thought I read somewhere that schools that allocate places by Lottery should do a fresh draw every time a place climes up, which would mean they can never actually tell you where you are on the waiting list. However, those seems not to be the case.

On the subject of lotteries (officially Random allocation), the School Admissions Code states:

Random allocation
1.34 Local authorities must not use random allocation as the principal oversubscription criterion for allocating places at all the schools in the area for which they are the admission authority. Admission authorities that decide to
use random allocation when schools are oversubscribed must set out clearlyhow this will operate, ensuring that arrangements are transparent, and thatlooked after children and previously looked after children are prioritised.
1.35 The random allocation process must be supervised by someone independent of the school, and a fresh round of random allocation must beused each time a child is to be offered a place from a waiting list.

(Bolding in the Code means that the action is mandatory).

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389388/School_Admissions_Code_2014_-_19_Dec.pdf

Thank you, MarchingFrogs.

So in fact a school that admits by
Lottery shouldn’t ever be in a position to tell a parent a numbered position on waiting list because the position is ‘you will be placed in the lottery next time a place comes up’.

Should schools publish, as part of their admissions policy, who the independent body overseeing the lottery is?

It has been known for some Academies to achieve their results and reputation by deft use of smoke and mirrors, after all....

So in fact a school that admits by Lottery shouldn’t ever be in a position to tell a parent a numbered position on waiting list

Correct.

Should schools publish, as part of their admissions policy, who the independent body overseeing the lottery is

There is no requirement for them to do so in the Admissions Code. If there is a question about the random allocation process it can be raised during appeals.

Venus

This is from Kingsdale’s admissions policy:

An applicant’s position on the waiting list(s) will be determined in accordance with our oversubscription criteria, taking into account late applicants, in accordance with the school Admissions Code. Any prospective parent may ask for an applicant’s name to be placed on a waiting list for Kingsdale Foundation School. The addition of an applicant to a waiting list will require the waiting list to be ranked again in line with the published oversubscription criteria.

The means that the school does a fresh draw when the add a child to the waiting list... not when a place becomes available.

So, the school can tell you your child’s position on the list in that day - but that does not mean it will not change.

The means that the school does a fresh draw when the add a child to the waiting list... not when a place becomes available

This should be reported to the Schools Adjudicator. If it means what it appears to say it does not to comply with the Admissions Code. Paragraph 1.35 (quoted by MarchingFrogs) requires them to hold a fresh draw whenever a place becomes available. Simply holding a draw whenever a child is added to the waiting list is not enough.

requires them to hold a fresh draw whenever a place becomes available.

I don't think Kingsdale does this. I know children who have sat on the Kingsdale waiting list between March and Sept and parents have regularly called in to find out their position and been told they've inched up from 80 or whatever to 40 to 20 and then they've eventually been offered a place. If they were doing a fresh draw each time then surely this kind of incremental moving up the list wouldn't be possible - there'd just be a flat list with every child on it having the same chance of being awarded the new place?

Also - how do waiting lists work with fair banding? presumably when a child refuses their place, they are replaced with another child from the waiting list in their band?

I don't think Kingsdale does this

Their admissions policy strongly suggests they don't. The fact they tell people their position on the list confirms that.

how do waiting lists work with fair banding? presumably when a child refuses their place, they are replaced with another child from the waiting list in their band?

Correct. So, even if they weren't using random allocation, you wouldn't actually have a place on the waiting list as such. You would have a place on the waiting list for your band.

I was told my where my daughter was on the waiting list and what band she was in. it moved a lot