Which do we choose?

[mishgs]

Please help!
We need to choose a high school for my DS aged 11. He's at a lovely, small Catholic primary school and has been there since he was 3. He loves it and academically is working at the expected level.
We are at the stage of choosing a high school. DS has been to 3 taster days with his close friends at the local Catholic high school and really enjoyed it. It has a great transition programme. It is an Ofsted rated 'good' school but is not in a particularly good area and suffers locally from a dated poor reputation compared to other local schools (based on an opinion from 20-30 years ago).
Here is our problem - the other choice is a large 'Outstanding' high school with a very good reputation - DS's friends from football & cricket will be going there.
My DH is VERY keen that he goes there but I think he would be happier in the other smaller school with his close friends. The GCSE results from both schools last year very similar so both did well.
DS said that he wants to go to the local smaller school with his 'best friends' but I just know how gutted my DH will be and will use every opportunity to say 'I told you so' when something goes wrong. I can't sleep with the worry & actually cried at the last open day as I'm so confused. I just want the best for him. Thanks for reading.

My dd (also Catholics) was allocated a school that none of her friends went to - catchment issue . Same kind of factors in play. She is in Y7 and loves it. Was nervous at first.

My son went to which schoolteachers he knew no-one and settled quickly and is doing really well. He also wanted to go a the local school with all his friends, but it has just gone into special measures so our decision was a bit easier.
What did your son think of the larger school?

Wanted to go to a school where....
Don't know what predictive text did there !!

Why is your DH so keen on the other school?

Can you visit each again, I bet they offer appointments for people who couldn't make the open night. Plus try and visit the schools at beginning and end of day to see what the pupils' behaviour is like.
Does the smaller school offer as many subject options as the larger one.

Thanks for your replies. I originally thought it was because his friends were going but after enjoying the taster days I think he genuinely enjoyed the whole experience.
I'm desperately trying to play devil's advocate and explaining the 'pros' and 'con's' of each school but yesterday said he wanted to go the the smaller school.
He's very sporty and the larger school has an excellent sporting reputation. They win everything! At the open day I mentioned they had a running club and he whispered 'I'm still not coming'....
He's a sociable kid & I think that he will make friends at both schools. There's a little part of me that thinks that writing the 'outstanding' school on a future CV will do him better. Trying to keep him and DH (who went to a grammar school) happy is bloody hard work!

Op will you definitely get a place at both? If so, lucky you, choosing between good and outstanding!

Yy why does dh like the other school?

I know clary, choosing between a 'good' and an 'outstanding' should feel like a 'win-win' but right now it doesn't...
I'm fairly certain he'll get a place at the catholic school as he's a baptised catholic from a feeder school. We're about a mile/mile and a half from the 'outstanding' so should be ok too (but you never know).
How much do universities/employers look at the secondary school you attended?

That's a good idea dixichickonhols - they seem to offer the same subjects. The outstanding school does offer a long list of 'extra curricular' activities but alot of them seem to be academic (eg an extra hour of physics which was not my idea of extra curricular!).
Both me, DH & DS enjoyed the open day for the smaller school - impressed by the enthusiasm of the teachers etc but DH seems stuck on the outstanding school. How can I convince him that DS wants the 'good' school? Is it sensible to give the decision to an 11 year old who is quite young for his age?

You can know pretty well about the outstanding school, if you look on your LA website it will say how far away offers were made. Probably ok tho unless you live in a very densely populated area!

FWIW all my DC made new friends within months/first year of secondary, even though they went to the same secondary as almost all their primary mates. So I wouldn't make friends a big thing.

Curriculum offer, GCSE subjects (eg how do they do triple science? how many languages can they study? Do they start GCSE in yr 8 or yr 9?), sports teams, extra curricular drama, I would say also are worth considering.

Thanks clary I'll look into the GCSE info a bit more. It's a whole new world!

I meant do they choose GCSE in yr 8 or yr 9, sorry, even today most school don't start the courses in yr 8!! 😃😃

Thanks.
I'm confident that he'll make new friends but I think just loves being with his circle of friends that he's been with for years and would be gutted if they went one way & he went another. I think he sees them as his 'comfort blanket' and who am I to take that away & say that you may not be friends in 12 months anyway.... I came out of high school with a different set than I went in with.
He's not got the maturity to see the bigger picture at the mo

How long ago was the Outstanding school inspected? Lots were years ago and this rating may no longer be relevant if a lot has changed in the meantime. There is little to choose between Outstanding and Good. The Good may still be getting better. Check where the Good school needs to improve and ask them if they have improved in these areas. Tell DH that Outstanding isn’t necessarily Gold standard if the inspection is way out of date.

In Good schools, many of the pupils will achieve just as highly as in an Outstanding school. Check the most recent data such as progress 8 on the government’s web site. Where do the schools rank in comparison to other similar schools? What are their average scores/grades at GCSE and A level? All this info is available.

Is the Outstanding school doing lots of extra classes to push up results? Is this what you want? What are the results for middle and high achievers? Are there noticeable differences and which school has most of each category? What are the strengths of the Catholic school? Get your DS to articulate them as opposed to just saying his friends will go there. Also universities don’t care what school you went to unless it’s on the list of schools where they give lower offers to applicants. Bristol university used to publish their list.

As you are Catholic, I’m surprised your DH doesn’t agree to Catholic. Most Catholic parents like the ethos that I know. I honestly doubt that your DS would be failed by the Catholic school although going with current friends isn’t the best reason to choose it. Friends find new friends! Also if he’s sporty, do it out of school and join a club. If your DS will hate not winning he might regret not going to the bigger school but if he does sport elsewhere it won’t matter so much.

It’s very difficult to avoid conflict in the family but DH is being a bit unreasonable. It’s not as if the Catholic school is RI or worse! However if it’s dipped into these categories in its history, then I’d be a bit concerned. If it’s solidly Good, I’d be less bothered. Do you trust the Head to keep the decent teachers? Does it feel purposeful and have the breadth of education that would suit DS? If it does, that’s useful ammunition. If it is small because no one wants to go there and it has loads of unfilled places, I would worry a bit. Is it filled to capacity? Hope some of this helps!

Wow - thanks Bubblesbuddy - thats certainly a lot to think about & look into. The smaller school has been oversubscribed for a few years so that aspect is ok. DS plays sport out of school & to be honest I'm not really sure how he'd fit much more in...
Both schools have plenty of positives and a few negatives but I'm going to do some more research into it.
Thanks everyone - I really appreciate all the advice.

Your dh isn't the one who will have to go there every day for the next five years. If your ds is happy with the smaller school, then that's the one I would go for. He'll only resent the fact you made the choice for him, if he ends up at the outstanding school and finds he doesn't like it.

My opinion is, that with in reason, the kids should have a choice as to where they go.

Universities/employers won't care which school he we to, just about his grades.

Over all I'd go for the smaller school.
I have with my DC but it does mean they don't win sports matches, as the other school have a lot more choice of who will play, rather than just using the kids who are happy to turn up but might be rubbish. My younger two are sporty and have found this frustrating.

My DDs went to a very sporty school and the school won national competitions. They were not sporty but even the mildly sporty never got near a team. School sport isn’t everything. Outside sports clubs can be just as good. My friend’s DS went to a non sporty school and he was wanted for every single team and sporting activity. They still didn’t win of course and he was frustrated. The continual pressure to be available was a bit overbearing so if he is gifted, be aware of that. If he’s keen but not gifted, winning isn’t everything! Making friends with team mates and enjoying their company has a lot to offer.

Tricky.
Surprised Dh doesn't default to the catholic.
Agree with all said before: boys friends change straight away, and no uni cares what school you went to.

My Ds has just gone into year 7 . I choose between 2 good Ofsted schools .

We chose the larger one in the end . Although like you pro’s and cons for both my deciding factor was that he seemed to fit in better in larger one .

The smaller one was much more stick and larger one seemed more carrot.

The larger one was where his friends went but already he is moving away from his friends,

Also do think of distance . My son can hang out on the local park building friendships where other children are bused out.

I think the main reasons why DH favours the bigger school is because it has a very good reputation, it's in an affluent area (to which he aspires but can't necessarily afford despite us both being professionals!), and his friends' children will be going. A little bit of 'keeping up with the Jones's' I feel...
The smaller school had a good feel about it on the open day & despite it being busy I managed to speak to a few of the teachers who I liked. The right teachers inspire kids to learn & want to improve (rather than large grounds & impressive buildings).
I'm sure the bigger school has good teachers too but I couldn't get to speak to them as their open day was heaving. Their intake is 800 as opposed to 200 of the smaller school.

Can't see if you've mentioned it, but why is DH so keen on the other school? If it's just the Ofsted rating that really is no guide to how your DS will get on at the school!! If he has genuine reason (the school will offer x, y,z ...) then of course this gives you something to weigh up and consider.

Picking up on points above. if the catholic school is in a sufficiently deprived area, then this will actually benefit your DS on university applications.
The "academic" extra-curricular activities offered by the larger school are likely to be study support - i.e. there is an after school session in every subject where your child can go and ask questions if they are struggling with anything in class.

My kids attend an Outstanding school - think it was inspected over 10 years ago and believe me they have plenty of ineffective teachers!

But, we live in an affluent area and parents are not willing to allow poor maths teaching to impact on their dc's results, so the use of tutors is usually the way to plug the gap - nearly half the kids in my dc's class have a tutor, the school's GCSE results look like good teaching more like good tutoring!
If the smaller school in a less well off area is getting the same results as a school in a more affluent area I'd think the smaller school had better teaching because the results in the smaller school will not be inflated by tutors.
Besides this I believe in taking dc's views into account when choosing a new school - in the event the your ds is miserable at school/gets bullied, he may blame and resent you for forcing him to attend a school he did not wish to - the teenage brain is a difficult thing to deal with at the best of times, having a good relationship with your dcs is really important in the teen years, it keeps you in the sphere of influence.

Thanks everyone - just hope me, DH & DS can come to a decision we all agree on. No school is perfect & I'm sure there'll be bumps in the road with both schools. Off to do plenty of research now!

mishgs. I've had experience of a larger Ofsted outstanding school. They had their inspection whilst I was a parent at the school. Ofsted missed a number of issues and wouldn't listen to parents who had contacted them. So I ignore Ofsted outstanding grades now. Ignore the Ofsted reports and ask for another look at these schools on a school day. Lots of parents ask for another look.

clary's point concerning the GCSEs available is very relevant. Ask lots of questions and email the schools if you have to.

Sit your DH down and have a frank conversation.