State school or private?

[iismum]

DD is moving to high school next year, and we are struggling to decide between her catchment high school and a private school. The catchment high school is pretty good and I think she would get a good education there, but it's huge and I feel she would get lost in the crowd a bit. She's bright but doesn't push herself that much and I feel won't be stretched that much. At a private school, I think she would get a bit more individual attention. One of the private school options is also large but they have more staff; the other one is much smaller. Money isn't too much of a consideration - it would be great not to pay out all that cash but we can afford it and my main priority is DD's education.

DD wants to go to the catchment high school as that's where most of her friends are going, but I think she will make new friends pretty soon either way. But I don't want her always regretting that she wasn't allowed to go ..!

Another factor is that DS, two years younger, may not be able to go to the same school because of catchment changes - his state school option may be considerably worse, in which case we would be pretty likely to consider private for him - but I really want them to have equality in education.

I'm finding it really hard to make the decision! If anyone has any thoughts on a good private school v a good state school, it would be helpful to hear them.

It’s down to the individual school and child.
Our catchment Secondary is awful so DD goes to a Private school that suits her very well. It’s perfect for her but wouldn’t suit everyone, DS will go there for year 7 but I’m not sure if it will suit him as well.

Thanks hopping. But I find it really hard to judge which will suit her best - it's not at all obvious to me!

With a good state Secondary she is keen to go to then I would go for that
I don’t know about where you are but the Private schools near us usually have room for an in year transfer in the State school doesn’t work out

Going to look round would clarify things for you.

Equally if the State is very good, you might like to question whether your money might be better spent elsewhere.

Have you, and DD, looked around all the schools?

Are you confident that she would pass the entrance exam (if there is one) to the private?

We have looked round all the schools but I'm still finding it hard to choose. I think DD would get into the private schools - they have exams but DD's quite bright and one of them is not hugely selective.

With any school there is always the risk that the school won't be a good fit for the child.

We had a bad private school experience but at a younger age than your DD and it was chiefly down to the school not really being right for him. The way they approached this was very bad and quite unprofessional but that is a different issue.

Class sizes are an area to consider. Small can be good, however, if the class is very small it's a very small pool of friends and there can be issues around this. Sometimes class sizes are not that much smaller than in a regular secondary school. For example, a highly regarded local private school hereabouts has a class size of 26. For years 7 and 8 the children are mostly taught with their actual form group. In my DS's secondary school the class size is 30, but regular comings and goings (no idea why that happens in a outstanding school but it does) means there are often no more than 28. Additionally, setting in Maths (Yr7 onwards), English, Science and Languages (Yr8 onwards) usually insures a smaller group. From Yr 9 they start GCSE work - also means a smaller group. With some private schools Y9 is the first year there so GCSE groupings start later.

Wider curriculum - you might find they get to do more subjects at a state secondary. I was dreading my son - who has poor motor skills - doing Food Tech but he loved it. Sometimes, getting a shot at not so conventionally academic subjects is really good.

He applied to the 2 local 11 plus private schools and was offered a place. Didn't want to go. Is getting on well in state secondary. Food Tech not an option at the 11plus schools locally.

SENCO - our experience is that state SENCO is way better than anything in the private sector.

I am very interested in people's views on this. We are having a similar debate to you (I did post a thread but I think it was too epic and muddled for any responses!)
We have an excellent state school and are within reach of many good private schools. It has been easy to rule out a number of schools on the basis of location/logistics, "hot-housing" culture, lack of good sport etc.
However, there is no "perfect" solution. Every school will have a compromise.
Our state school is extremely large. But being so large it can offer a broad curriculum and excellent sports and arts facilities. It is also where most of my DD's friends will go.
There is a lovely well rounded independent school with a bus service from our rural location. But that means a much longer school day. It's sporting facilities are good but it's not particularly strong in DD's chosen sport.
Then we have another independent - even further away. Academically very strong and it will support DD's sport. However, the logistics are a nightmare with a 10 minute drive to and from the bus (7am depart and 5pm return) and collections 15 miles away if clubs are chosen.
It has to come down of weighing up the pros and cons of each school for each child. Having said that, where there are siblings involved it becomes more complex.
My eldest is at the state school and does not want to move at this point. It is also questionable whether he would pass entrance tests. However, my youngest is bright (but lazy) and would hugely benefit from going to the boys equivalent of school 2. There is not just a question of having the children in 2 different schools but 3.
And then I reach your key point - equality. I can't square the concept of one child being independently educated and the other not. However, I know other families who seem to have done this successfully.
Like every other parent, I would like to give my children the best chance of a good well rounded education at a school where they are happy.
Another thing to think about is activities. My children have time consuming hobbies that they pursue out of school and these also need to be factored in.
Some private schools do offer opportunities like cadets and specialist sports and music lessons, which may be important to certain children and help with logistics if these are currently being pursued out of school?
I wish you all the best with your decision - do let us know how you get on.

I don't think you can just assume that state schools won't stretch the most able - many certainly do. They can't coast any more, they have to show progress, so if a bright child starts from a high baseline, the school can't rest on its laurels any more because they will pass their GCSEs and be OK - they will have to push for the top grades.

And then there's university further down the line, which costs £££.

Would your son not get sibling priority?

I would think hard about the finances. Does paying for private school mean you wouldn't be able to help with university costs and a house deposit? I tend to think the cost/benefit ratio of state or private is different to how it was 30/40 years ago.

Private definitely not an issue for us, quite apart from the politics the indies near us were either not right for DD or not worth the money. Even if one of them had seemed wonderful I don't think the gains for her would have been anything comparable to possibly having her own home rather than throwing money away on rent.

Highly recommend an outstanding state school.
Had very bad experience with private school had to take my child out in in- year. Very stressful.

I didn't read the whole thread. As a rule I would think a top private school like JAGS, City, Latymer Upper etc would be better than even an outstanding state if you can pass their entrance exams, however if you end up in a middle/low tier private, I think it might be worse than an outstanding state in terms of education. Even if the state if very large, they have a form class and the children are set, so they end up with a smaller group. After that you have behaviour/bullying etc to consider, if your child is a bit quirky and/or has been bullied in the past, a private school might be better, but again it's not a guarantee.

Good state school, I too would choose that. Pastoral care is usually such that they don’t get lost in bigger schools.
Some independent schools are, for want of a better word, crap.
The reason top independents do well is simply intake.

......and money, of course.

People suggesting a “good state school” are assuming one is available
I would have been happy for dd to go to one of those as she did at Primary but it wasn’t possible so she is at Private school

If you can afford to pay then it is unconscionable not to. This isn't Germany, our government is running a huge deficit. Taxes are already high so cuts will be made rather than increasing revenues. Each time a family like yours uses a state funded service you take resources away from the people who actually need them. The welfare state is for people who have no other option, not those who think it would be nice not to pay their way.

I disagree with Racecar above. State schools need well off well educated parents to care and to lobby their MPs not just disappear off to the private sector.
I would definitely apply for a place at the state school to keep your options open and go and visit both (and maybe a couple more for comparison). If your daughter still wants to go to the state then let her. If in a couple of years your son chooses private that’s fine too, they both made their choices. I was worried about the size of DS’s secondary coming from a one form entry primary but he’s been fine. He has form time (mixed ability), is set for maths/ science and English/Humanities and then mixed again for PE, food, drama etc. So he meets a variety of different people.

I’ve only ever been to private schools and I love it, the money is so worth it. I get so many more opportunities than any of my friends ever have, we have things like CCF at our school and a lot of private schools do, I have been power boating, sailed the English Channel and been flying all for free!! Obviously not everyone’s into that but it’s the sort of thing that you can do. I am very sporty, as you can tell by my name 😂, and the opportunities I get at a private school are so much greater than any of my friends. I’m obviously not sure what your daughters into, but private schools also plug a lot of money into music and drama. I absolutely love private schooling. My classes are so small and I love the friendly and distraction free learning environment, my maths class is 5 people, my friend at a state school has 43 people in her maths class...I couldn’t imagine that!!
The only thing I would say is that you don’t have to get a teaching degree to teach at some private schools, at all state schools you do but at some private schools you can be hired from having only a degree. But then again there are going to always be good and bad teachers no matter where you go.
If your daughter is joining senior school then she won’t be alone, guarantee most of her yeargroup will be new and she will make friends in no time.
I absolutely love it and I would 100000% recommend private school education for the size, and opportunities.
Also they will be willing to hand out big scholarships if your daughter is talented in a certain area so would be worth investigating that.
I hope my opinions helps!!x

Both my DC are at an (admittedly nationally renowned) state school. They went to private Prep but when we came to look at secondaries none of the local independents really 'fit' with us as a family and we just couldn't see the value in paying all that money.

Small classes are not always the best, my DC were in classes of around 12 at Prep and now in classes of 30 at state school but with smaller groupings for core subjects and some less popular electives (like Mandarin). Being in a bigger cohort of pupils has been good for both of them. They are bright kids and at Prep were right at the top of the class for everything.
At state secondary there are plenty of trulyexceptional children who have more than challenged them and this has driven them to work harder.

Their school offers CCF etc, is a specialist school and music and languages and has an extensive after school programme.

Don't discount state schools - private is not always better just because it's expensive.

I love these posts especially when someone comes along to share there fantastic state school experience. Then you find out is a top state school! There are a number of top state schools who have strict admission criteria, religion, banding assessments, offer scholarships, language assessments so they are effectively taking usually the brightest DC and the only difference is that you don’t pay. Greycoats is a good example .... think Tony Blair’s daughter goes there. There are those that describe a fantastic state school and you find out it’s a highly selective grammar. Not all secondary schools are fantastic, those that are tend to be in high cost areas therefore the DC attending are usually from Middle Class backgrounds so it’s is a form of selection ....... I am fortunate to live in one of those areas and have a ‘outstanding’ secondary school round the corner and some of the top private schools. I however don’t like the state secondary, they have a predominately white group of middle class DC. Yes they offer scholarships for music however there focus is on the top set where they focus on Oxbridge and the set that are below C grade( although will be band 5 now) any DC in the middle who is doing well enough is left to it. They told us that our DS was setting his sights too high with his university choices. He chose good Russel Groups and advised him to change to not so good Uni. Absolutely no way were we going to let our DS head to an ex poly to end up with mass debts and poor job prospects, waste of money and if that was his path I would have advised him to go for an apprenticeship type role and not bother with uni. He did however get offers for all of his Uni choices and got A stars in his a levels. The same school also told us not to bother getting his As level remarked as he should be happy with what he got! My DS had gone to a private secondary up until 6th form. It was more ethnically diverse than the state school he subsequently attended. My DD is at private and my DS2 is also at private and we will not move them to a sixth form state. Might not make any difference to where they go to uni and that would be expected as there are far more state DC however when it comes to job prospects private school DC tend to fair better. And before I get a back lash I come from a poor background, having lived in a tenement flat in Glasgow with an outside toilet before moving to a new town. I have worked hard and it’s nice to be in a position to give my DC something i didn’t have myself. What ever happens in ther future is down to them and private offers no guarantees.

Sorry school I am describing is a comprehensive not a grammar, small number of places (4 out of 120 I think) for music aptitude.

It's just a great state school

Oh I personally hate the snobbery around Russell Group Unis. I went to an ex-poly and it served me very well. I earn a six figure salary in a professional role.

If you decide on the state school, your second child will be higher up the admissions criteria by having a sibling there.

bangour, you are correct that not all state schools are fantastic, but neither are all private schools.

I decided not to keep my DD in the 4-18 private school she attended, because the junior school didn’t seem to place any emphasis on academic improvement.

They didn’t even inform me that the CAT/NFER scores that my DD attained every year since year 3 were actually quite high - I found that out from other parents.

The state school my DD attends, is probably one of those schools that you consider “fantastic” since they do offer sports/music scholarships prior to entry (doesn't guarantee a place though) and the possibility of an art or maths scholarships after starting school. But it’s not predominantly white, very much 50/50 - probably because it considers applications from any area of London and beyond.

This school has kept me more informed of my DD’s level of ability in all subjects, than I ever was at the private school.

So, OP I would say “look before you leap” - make sure the school (private or state) offers what you want for your DC.

FYI - David Cameron’s DD goes to Greycoats