torn between 2 schools

[lea75]

Hi, I didn't want to post on the local thread as I wanted to hear comments from non-local parents as well. DD is an only child, year 6 and we need to decide which school to list first on the application. These are the main choices, both local comprehensives, and we're in the catchment area for both:

Teddington School: our very local school, 1km away, good academic results (2018 www.teddingtonschool.org/Examination-Results). Problem is, they were recently inspected by Ofsted in Jan 2018 and the school got "Requires Improvement" (down from Good in 2014). The headteacher stepped down right after the inspection, and they have had a new HT for the past year or so.

Grey Court: awkward/unsafe/long 2.5km commute (across the Thames river on a pedestrian bridge, and through a poorly lit common). Good results as well, better than Teddington though: greycourt.fluencycms.co.uk/Exam-Press-Release-2018 They were also inspected by Ofsted in 2018 and got Outstanding (kept their previous Outstanding rating).

We visited both schools, were impressed with the Grey Court headteacher and the grounds - huge site. Teddington School also has great facilities, but the headteacher (the new one) seemed - well, average, or maybe she isn't an inspirational speaker. Both schools seem to have great extracurricular options. Grey Court is more science, maths, computing oriented, Teddington School has no specialism.

My DD wants Teddington School because she seems to think most of her friends will go there. She is sporty but not competitive and in top sets for English but average in Maths. Loves Science though.

Ofsted and 2017 results:

Grey Court: reports.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138825
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/138825/grey-court-school

Teddington School:
reports.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138460
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/138460/teddington-school

What would you choose? Longer/unsafer commute (probably 30-40 mins walk, or similar bus ride with 1 change) and outstanding school OR short commute and average school (but DD's first choice)? She would probably know socially more children in Teddington School but I'm pretty sure she will know some children in Grey Court - because of that Ofsted report some parents will opt for GC.

The length of the commute is important to me, as it would free up a lot of time for extra curricular stuff and homework...

Thank you.

Think about that unsafe commute in the dark winter morning and dark evenings
She will make friends at either school but they are more likely to live nearer to you at your local school

Read the OFSTED report(s) carefully beyond the grades. Was everything at Teddington RI or was there lots of Good with a problem which is/was already being addressed? What does it say about the Senior Leadership Team, governors, other management? Has staff turnover increased? What are the actual teachers like? I wouldn't judge a headteacher by public speaking or their own self promtion skills, but by the effect of their management style on staff and children - and I know that's really hard to tell from outside! I've been a primary school parent governor for several years and am involved in the local governors' association, and I know the former NUT (teachers' union) branch secretary in my borough quite well and I've heard some of the stories behind the headlines - obviously all those things come with biases as well but they add up to a wider picture.

Did you get to visit subject teachers and find out more about them?

As you say the near school will leave more time for extra curricular stuff and homework. Also, the if the extra curricular stuff is after school a difficult journey might put her off doing so much, or trying new opportunities out.

I predict most other posters will disagree with me, but listen to your daughter as well.

Not sure. I would probably go for the nearer one.

On a completely unrelated note I believe Grey Court was used for a long running photo story in Bunty Comic back in the 90s.

That's random I know.

Can she get a bus to Grey Court to make the commute safer (esp in winter and when she doesn't know anyone to walk with)?

elkiedee: the story on the Ofsted is a very long one with rumours of personality clash between the (now departed) headteacher and the inspectors... I do think the RI judgement is very harsh given that the school has good results and I know many parents with children there BUT it did have problems with chatter in class etc and not pushing very able children enough. Local primary feeders get great SATs so intake is similar for both school. I have no doubt that - strictly academically speaking - Grey Court is superior to Teddington School and had it been closer (and less unsafe commute) there would be no debate. My DD is August-born and that shows. At the moment she walks to school on her own in the mornings, but not after school, as she goes to a childminder until 6pm. However, our primary is a 5-min walk. Teddington School is a 10-min walk.

@Blue: there is no direct bus, it's 2 buses and in the morning that can be a nightmare, as the first bus needs to cross a bridge. The bus journey would be helpful only after school for sure.

Also, my OH commutes 1.5 hrs a day and works very long hours and I don't drive. Proximity to school was always important and perhaps that's not such an issue in secondary, but knowing the amount of homework kids will have to do, and also sports and so on, maybe it is...

Another aspect is that my DD, even though she loves school and is enthusiastic, is not competitive at all and not overly academic. She does well in primary, but does need a bit of pushing and I'm afraid a school like Teddington School won't do that for her. Grey Court seems more academic and more stimulating in that area. It is also a teaching school. Teddington School seems to be focusing more on well being and happiness of the children, and less on academics, if that makes sense. They also focus less on ebacc subjects than GC. Obviously, it's now tainted by that RI judgement and many parents will be influenced so I'm also concerned about weaker cohorts until it gets back on track. However, parents with existing children (older siblings of DD's friends) are generally happy about the school.

It's such a tough decision to make. Heart says Teddington, head says Grey Court*.

I know life is much more than academic results and we want our child to be happy, but we also want her to have a good education. I'm maybe feeling like - by choosing Teddington - we're not offering her the best education that she can access.

PS. And yes, we did consider moving to the Grey Court area after we get the school place. We don't need to move now to get in, as we are in the catchment distance for both.

Can see your dilemma OP - I wouldn't like the sound of that commute and would probably be having kittens every day.

Having dug around in the statistics though, Grey Court is ahead academically by a substantial margin - progress rates are massively better. To me, at first sight, Teddington looks to be underachieving - something like 70% last year's GCSE cohort were High Achievers at KS2 yet they made only average progress.

Exam results can mislead when people don't look at the cohort entering but I would wonder why a school with such a privileged cohort is not doing better.

Very difficult - I think in the end I'd feel that when a child has to make a tough journey it should really be to the school they have chosen - otherwise there seems a lot of potential for moaning on a cold morning! My own DD goes to a comp in the next town to us but that was her choice and I did say "Are you sure about the bus journey?"

What are her chances of getting in to Grey Court? Are you in catchment?

Thanks.

Chances to get into GC are very high, historically speaking. This year things might change a bit because of the Teddington RI Ofsted, but I believe DD will get an offer in the initial round of allocation.

HPFA: yes I believe that is the main criticism of Teddington - underachieving, giving its intake. Most locals schools have a very good intake, something like two thirds of children high achievers at KS2 level in both Grey Court and Teddington. Many of the primaries are outstanding, but there are also a lot of private options, so a good chunk of children will go private at 11+, after leaving the state primary.

There are no grammars close by, apart from Tiffin Girls - but we never considered preparing for it, partly because of single sex and way too pushy/competitive ethos.

Simply go for the one her friends are going to. If she is miserable - no friends, long journey - she will not learn so well.

I know a bit about OfSted reports - they have certain parameters on which to judge a school, which may bear little or no relation to how that school actually operates; and a school that has "Requires Improvement" can be just fine, and certainly on its mettle to get everything right.

I know this is old, but just wondered which school you ended up going for and how your DD is getting on?

I think there have to be extremely compelling reasons not to select your local school with such an awkward journey to Grey Court.
Plus there are so many advantages to having a school on your doorstep that will generally translate your child being happier (and happy children do better :) )

I'm not sure comparing exam results is necessarily helpful as there haven't been any for the last 2 years, and you therefore won't be able to see what difference the new headteacher has made at Teddington. I would ask what changes Teddington has made since the 2018 Ofsted, and if they think those changes have reflected into better results for the 2 most recent cohorts.

Don't be swayed by things like big grounds. My DC's school has big grounds, but they don't use most of them for most of the year.
I agree a strong head is a good thing - but try to work out why they impressed - was it genuinely the school's ethos or just that they were better at selling it?

I don't know either school, so this may be unfair comment, but I'm personally always a little dubious about Ofsted outstanding schools - mainly because I know of too many children that have gone to such schools and had a miserable time because the school expected its children to fit a certain "mould" and, didn't support others particularly well.

Doh - realised this is a zombie !!!

@Munchathon

I know this is old, but just wondered which school you ended up going for and how your DD is getting on?

You might be better off messaging the OP direct. Good luck!

I'm curious how it worked out for them now too!

Hello, I wonder which school you choose and if you are happy at the end.