What responsibility does a secondary school realistically have...

[Lostbeyondwords]

with regards to supporting children who have suffered trauma?

DD needs some help, I'm not sure what to ask for anymore. At the end of yr7 we found dd needed support at school. couldn't concentrate, didn't want to be anywhere that wasn't with me, was struggling with friendships, hiding in the toilets because nobody would let her out of lesson for some "peace".

She'd had a very traumatic time (outside of school) and following on from that was finding life just hard. School were informed of everything and we had MANY meetings about her support.

In school they gave her a pass to leave lessons if she needed a minute, agreed to call us if she needed to come home or speak to us, agreed there would be someone on site (CP team) to support her. Tried camhs, they weren't interested. They tried reducing her timetable a bit or not putting her in trouble if she arrived a little late if she was finding it difficult to get out of bed (mentally not physically) but over year 8 these things slipped and disappeared completely by the end. She was even told the cp team don't look after her anymore. No discussion with us at all.

Outside of school we tried counselling (She didn't feel it helped with how she felt and refused to go back), she knows she can talk to us anytime about anything (and has done), we've not pressured her about school, mental health comes first etc, and generally she likes school and before this, was doing nicely. She's been back three days and today has already asked if I could remember the last time she left early (probably wants to come home) - last year they started telling her she wasn't allowed home anymore as her attendance was too poor (87% I believe). Council had been involved and was actually very understanding, she's not truenting, she's troubled and deeply sad and confused. 9 out of 10 times if she needs to speak to someone, there's nobody available so she doesn't see the point in trying.

I don't know how to help any further and I can just see this school year starting badly already, but I don't know what to ask the teachers for anymore? Three months after her "traumatic event" they felt she should be over it and getting back to normal but not everybody can do that and actually for a bloody child I don't think is the right attitude but we tried. It backfired.

Does anyone know how schools SHOULD operate in supporting kids like this? Is this the best of pastoral care she's getting and I'm being unfair on them or should there be more....something?

I think the things the school put in place initially sound pretty good, the trouble is they have faded away.

How many counselling sessions did she go to before giving up? My DD1 has had counselling and it does take time to help.

Can the NSPCC help with counselling?

I'd ask for another meeting with pastoral.

Thanks TeenTimesTwo the nspcc were actually the only ones willing to help her. She had 6 weeks with them and they recommended more session but she was adamant it didn't help and wasn't needed. They did say she could come back any time, I may need to maybe persuade her that actually she does need some help and to try again. It's hard though.

I've had many of these problems with my DS, he's just started Y10. He's ASD, has very bad anxiety & depression. I fought for him to have a teaching assistant for some lessons but they keep on leaving & aren't being replaced, he is supposed to have an out of lesson pass so if he gets upset or stressed he can go somewhere quiet to calm down, as usual this hasn't been put in place yet at the start of the new year. He struggles with breaks & lunchtime when things aren't structured, his attendance is frankly rubbish, but when you have a child that doesn't sleep well, was falling asleep in lessons, suffers from migraines & bowel problems as well as his emotional problems, 100% attendance just isn't realistic.

I've tried to work with school, attending meetings to try to get more support, but school will only do what they want to do, not actually what your child needs. With the cuts in funding things aren't ever going to get better. Thankfully my DS has only this year & next at this school, once he has done his GCSE'S we are going to look at a different sixth form or college for him to do either A levels or BTEC, he is extremely intelligent & even with his problems his projected grades are nearly all level 7 & above. He is coping better the older he gets & actually for the first time in his life has a friend who sticks with him, she has problems & they support each other, they go out socially & this has really helped him a lot.

It's hard Nat, but glad he's coping better with age. I don't know why they can't just do an indefinite pass, you know? And if things get to the point where they've improved then that's great, remove it, but to have to fight for days/weeks each term just sets everything back doesn't it.

I feel like that's where we're at, d's needs a friend who also has some issues because who else will understand? And she has really only one good friend and even then only barely because she doesn't feel like she can share her problems in case they stop being friends and it's spread across the school. I just don't feel like the school care, which feels really sad.

I don't think it's that they don't care, but resources are limited and schools are under a lot of pressure. 87% is very low and I'd be encouraging her to stay in school as well.
Does she have a key adult? Is she on the SEN register? (That would only be if her emotional health was affecting her making progress at school though)
A lot of what we offer would be external, so referrals to other support agencies but we'd definitely look at CAMHS, possibly educational psychologist if affecting her schooling significantly. A key adult to check in with her and who ca build a relationship with her.

I think school do care BUT they are also humans with finite resources. If your dd appears to be coping she will slip below the radar.

87% is over a day every 2 weeks off. This is high.

Be proactive and get the support in place now before she needs it.

Yes, they should have assessed her under the special educational needs processes. The focus in SEN is on educational needs, what has happened has effected her ability to access her education so she should fall under it.

They would first consider her under SEN Support applying the graduated approach and classifying her primary SEN as ‘social, emotional and mental health.’ If after doing so they could not successfully meet her needs they or you would apply to the local authority for an Education, Health and Care assessment.

As to speak to the SENCO and parrot what I’ve just written. Speak to your local authority SEN team and speak to your local SENDIASS or local independent support - the local authority will signpost you to them.

I had no idea about SEN even being an option! Thank you so much. I have something to bring to them now.

She did have a key adult but they left the school and she was left with the "team" which was fine, but they don't have time for her. They're busy so send her back to class, so she sits in the toilets texting me about how sad she is and can't cope.

Most of her time off was because of not coping, most days it would be them sending her home but on the few days she was in tears before even leaving the house, or even on the way in, i kept her home. Its my fault too, but i couldn't handle making her go in such a state, telling her it would be ok and she'd get time outs or someone to talk to (as we'd agreed) only for it not to honored at school.
I think resources really is the issue but it's not a good enough attitude. They tried camhs but camhs basically said she's not "bad enough" to meet their threshold for help, which is fine, but I agree, missing that much school must be on someone's threshold! They did do an assessment when it happened and came up with lots of plans (was never put to us a SEN though) but as I say, when the key teacher left, they all slowly fell apart.

I even thought about changing schools at one point. I want her to be in school and do well for herself, I'll go back to the school and ask about setting a new and realistic plan. Thanks

Don't forget that SEN (Special Educational Needs) is often now called SEND (D = disability), because schools have additional statutory duties towards children with SEN AND Disabilities. You may be able to get a mental health diagnosis that constitutes a disability.

I would have a look through this website www.gov.uk/government/collections/statutory-guidance-schools - look at the publications for safeguarding and SEND. Remember this is STATUTORY guidance - i.e. the schools don't have a choice. You can then quote the relevant parts to the school and point out where they are failing in their duty of care. If you get a diagnosis of a disability, it's also worth looking at the Equality Act.

Some of the thinking at the school could be that if the event happened some time ago, continuing to have such a high level of support won't improve her ability to cope over time. The thinking could be that if you never take the training wheels off, you'll never really ride a bike?

If she still isn't coping years later, I'd try to convince her about counselling just to come up with more effective coping strategies as it seems the ones she uses (going to cry in the toilets and text you) aren't helping her in the long or short term.

Of course it's reasonable to be upset about things, but she needs to find ways of being able to cope with her life, which will have other stressors (like exams in the not so distant future). Building resilience.

Has she tried mindfulness?

It's hard to see what the long-term plan is here. She doesn't want help to cope, she wants accomodations to help when she's not coping. That sounds like a temporary fix.
Do you think she is likely to get better if left to it? Id worry that generally poor attendence, missing lessons/bits of lessons will lead to a downward spiral of stress as she gets further and further behind, leading to more refusal/avoidance and problems down the line.

I kind of agree with Barbarian . School won't want a child to become too dependent on going out of lessons whenever. But if the DC isn't receiving help to address the cause then I can see it going downwards too.

My instinct (without obviously knowing anything about the situation) would be to say the DD needs to go back to some counselling. Even if just to show some help is being sought, but if she sticks at it, if it is any good, then she will benefit over time. It is unlikely to do harm I would think.

OP can you use her attendance as a sort of negotiation point in trying to get her some of the support the school originally put in place/offered?
You could set up a meeting and explain the reason her attendance is low is because she isn't coping because of the lack of support offered. If school could put the support back in place e then her attendance would improve. Schools are really hot on attendance levels so maybe you could use that to get some help.

That all makes sense and is very accurate. What she wants is a plaster for the cracks and not to address the issue. I suppose I do too, but only because it seems to be the only thing I can do!

Yes they want to "build her resilience" and it makes sense and I do agree. But when I see her sad face and slopey shoulders it breaks my heart.

It is years and at the same time it's not? It's been 16 months that school have known but she's carried it with her for a year before that. Back to some kind of therapy/counselling then, we can't have it as bad as last year.

I don't see it getting better if left, no, if I'm honest. I think in herself and in general she's "better", definitely, but it creeps back in at random. I'll have a chat with her again, explain school can only do so much and the rest needs to come from her (again). We talked through mindfulness but she thought it silly and couldn't take it seriously, worth another go though.

Hi, I feel for you. unfortunately schools although care, care more about attendance and results.
I’m going through the process of trying to get an EHCP fo my year 11 daughter, this then lasts until they are 25 so sees them through college. Definitely go to SENCO but in my case you have to really push and follow up everything with emails
Dealing with teens with mental health is hard, time out cards can also make them stand out which draws attention to them
Good luck

Not the same I realise, but my DD1 went into care at 6 and was adopted by us at 8, so she had a pretty rubbish start in life.

We used to talk about aiming to succeed despite her early years - that she shouldn't let it define her or drag her down from the opportunities she now had. I don't know whether trying to have that attitude whilst in lessons would help at all? (probably not).

Sounds as though maybe some kind of therapy around trauma would be more useful - have you done much research? Hard to advise not knowing the exact situation but there is definitely stuff out there. Problem we usually find is the most damaged kids are too anxious or defensive to want to do it, but sounds like your dad might?

And in response to schools caring more about results and attendance, that just isn't true. But, there is huge pressure, so it is always at the back of our minds. But if we get kids happy and settled in life, they will attend school more regularly and will achieve better results that give them a better chance in life, so it is all linked!!