Son just been offered place at grammar

[gramadilema]

I know this is maybe a bit of a luxury problem but we are on the horns of a dilemma and I’d love some mumsnet input .
DS started comprehensive (2nd choice) this week. Got a call today from grammar where he was on waiting list. Great, but he’s enjoying the comprehensive after 3 days there. He’s enjoyed his lessons and is feeling positive. He also feels he’ll get into top sets and will be challenged. The grammar will mean a one hour journey and that is the main drawback. The comp is 20 minutes away. We have no car and if trains aren’t running to schedule we’ll be stuck.
Arguments in favour of grammar are a proven track record, popular head, good attainment at A level ( average score B+ to comp’s C).
would it be silly not to take up the grammar? I have to get back to them tomorrow.

[Bunnybigears]

A 1 hour journey each way may be ok if he starts amd finishes at the normal time but when he starts wanting to go to afterschool activities or to a friends house after school it suddenly becomes mlre of a problem and a very long day.

[twoheaped]

Mine has a similar journey to grammar and has coped very well with the early starts and later (than local schools) home.
The difference in our case is the local schools are dire, 47% headline for GCSE this year, down from last year is the best around.
Going out of catchment can be a pain if there are after school sports and for meeting up with friends but it is a sacrifice I am more than happy to make.
On the plus side, she is happy to navigate busses and trains without me guiding her, to get to where she wants to be.
My dd moaned bitterly about going to grammar but she never could have gone with her sister as we moved and were 35 miles from that school. She is happy there now, a year in.
Good luck whatever you choose.

[HPFA]

Really annoys me people here just saying "Oh, must go to the grammar" without knowing anything about the child's temperament, the schools involved, anything specific. This "oh, any grammar must be better than any comp" attitude is just so outdated and doesn't do our society any favours.

Decision is yours OP you know your son best and where he'll be happiest. There will be some benefits to him and some disadvantages either way. But please don't listen to people saying "grammar must always be better" .

[HollyBollyBooBoo]

Grammar school for sure. He can't be objective when he's already at the comp. the thought of moving will deter him.

[KnotsInMay]

HPFA: I agree, and especially where people base their opinion of schools on experiences from 30 years ago.

[KnotsInMay]

The OP needs to make her decision on what she knows if the individual school, child and circumstances. If the chance if the Grammar is the right choice, great.

If not, the comprehensive also sounds excellent. Win win situation, so something to celebrate.

[CherryPavlova]

I’d actually be a bit concerned by an average of B at A level from a grammar given they select the less than 5% of children - so highest abilities. The proportion of children getting 3A/A* is 14% - so an average of B from highest achieving cohorts is pretty poor education. Our local comprehensive does significantly better.

The local comprehensive gets an average of Cs at A level but from a much lower average demographic. Many of the top 5% have been creamed off to that poor performing grammar ( kids that bright will get the grades wherever). Leaving a very wide distribution who still manage to average Cs.

You need not to be looking at Cs but what the top 5% are achieving at A level.

[OliviaStabler]

He's been given a great opportunity, I'd take it.

[BertrandRussell]

The journey sounds a nightmare. For that reason alone I would leave him where he is. What about when the weather is bad or when he has after school matches and rehearsals? What if he is a bit ill, or hurts himself or had to carry a cello-4x20 minute bike rides a day just wouldn't be feasible and you can't give him the occasional lift. How will he get home from parties when he's a bit older?

[BertrandRussell]

Sorry-4x10 minute bike rides a day. Same principle!

[FabulousTomatoes]

Comp, no brainer. ofsted-outstanding, comparable progress score, close to home, and most importantly you know your son is happy there!

I have a voice of reason in times like this: do what makes your child happy, and whatever ensures their long-term confidence. You will go much further on a consolidated foundation of confidence than a weak and tenuous one. Your ds will do fine at the comp. I can’t tell you how important their social lives become as they go up through senior school, and having a network of local friends can be invaluable.

[KeepingTheWormsQuiet]

I think I might know the comp from your description of the circumstances. Are you talking about one of the Sutton grammars? If I'm right, I think the governors at the comp are trying really hard to get a really good replacement for the previous excellent head and that's why they didn't appoint any of the people they interviewed.

My sons are at one of the Sutton grammars and it's a wonderful school and it's normal to have a journey to get there. Coming in on the waiting list does not mean that he would struggle. You're probably only talking about a couple of marks down from boys who got in on the first round. If you would have taken the grammar place a few months ago, what's really changed?

[KeepingTheWormsQuiet]

Actually I don't get the B average thing. Maybe it's not one of the Sutton grammars.

[LoniceraJaponica]

“Frankly, I wouldn't put too much store on entering grammar after five years at a comp - the mould is kind of "set" by then.”

Really

I hate the assumption that some parents have that all comprehensive schools are sink schools with low aspirations. The excellent comprehensive that DD has just left has just had an outstanding set of GCSE and A level results. Over 45% of A levels students achieved A/A at A level compared to the national average of 26% (this was for any quantity. I don’t know how many achieved 3A/A – DD did though [proud mum])

“Academic-wise, there's "security" in a super-selective grammar, never mind which set your child may be in. It's cool to be seen as studious and hard-working here - can't say the same in a comp.”

That is utter bollocks
You clearly have no idea what a good comprehensive school is like.

“There is no reason to assume that performance and teaching in top sets at a comp are a lesser education than at a Grammar.”

This ^^. Very much so. DD’s old school has some very dedicated teachers.

I agree that it is a difficult decision, and based on my own experiences with DD the grammar school option would not have worked. The travelling and lack of local friends would have contributed to her not thriving at school.

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

I’d move him to the grammar...

[brokenharbour]

I was given the choice at 11 between a scholarship to a selective school and a comp. Chose the comp. I did well but I think I would have actually passed my Cambridge interview if I'd been at the better school! I am not sure my parents did the right thing by giving me the choice to be honest, maybe they should have made me go to the better school. I would have got over it. (My parents were the best so hopefully I don't sound too spoilt and resentful!)

[BertrandRussell]

The journey is absurd. Don't do it.

[LucheroTena]

From what you’ve said, I’d leave him at the comp. for the following reasons:

It sounds like a genuine comp (ie not a secondary modern) so will have a proper top set. As you said, 3 students this year went to Cambridge. So he’ll be challenged.

It’s Ofsted outstanding and sounds like it’s well led.

He’s invested there (has been anticipating going, bought uniform, first few days are out of the way).

The journey to the super selective grammar sounds like a real challenge (long journey, requires a few modes of transport, you don’t have a car if things go wrong). This means he is unlikely to have many local friends. Also as others have said, transporting laptops, sports gear, musical instruments on top of heavy books on the cycle part will be awful.

I’m not a complete at all costs person (my child is in an independent), but if I were in your shoes I would have picked that comp. I would actually have bitten off my arm for a good comp like that as the only way you can access the good comps in my area (non grammar) is to be religious.

[LoniceraJaponica]

The being an hour away and having no car would be a concern. Unfortunately I have had to pick up an ill DD from school a few times.

If he goes to the grammer sschool I would be making sure I had enough taxi money just in case of an emergency.

[Astronotus]

I'm interested that your child asked you to break down the elements of his travel. He seems to be seriously thinking of the grammar option. Many DC I know have journeys of one hour or more. The older he gets the easier this will seem. Take the travelling out of the equation and then list the good and bad points of each school. I would not pass up the chance of a grammar school place lightly and as others have said you could always move back the other way if needed, where you would be top of the waiting list if they have sibling criteria.

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

In London an hour's travel each way is standard. DS goes to school further away than DD but for various reasons his journey is quicker. They both leave at the same time in the morning though, although for some reason DD usually beats her brother home in the afternoon.

[ballseditupforever]

If he had got into the grammar first round would you have sent him there? If so I would move him. The three days in are irrelevant for the purposes of making your decision.

[Chipotlejars]

I can't believe that so many pp are ruling the grammar out on the basis of the journey! Doing what is easiest should not form the basis of this important decision. Potential academic achievement is what matters most here. A good education is worth travelling for! Yes there will be some days when the op's ds will be feeling unwell, and some days when the train breaks down, but that is all part of the learning experience and by the age of 14 yrs he will be taking it all in his stride. My dd attends a school to which many pupils travel for miles and miles and they are happy to do because the opportunities it affords them are worth it. The only factor to be considered here in relation to location is the point made by Pandapiefortea.

[BertrandRussell]

An hour's journey is fine. An hour's journey with 20 minutes on a bike that has to be taken on the train and no car for occasional lifts if necessary is not fine.

[FabulousTomatoes]

It Chipotle the alternative to the grammar is hardly a sink school . If it were a clear case of travelling for a great education or staying put for a mediocre one I would say go for the grammar hands down. Luckily for the op’s ds, he is not in that situation.