Son just been offered place at grammar

[gramadilema]

I know this is maybe a bit of a luxury problem but we are on the horns of a dilemma and I’d love some mumsnet input .
DS started comprehensive (2nd choice) this week. Got a call today from grammar where he was on waiting list. Great, but he’s enjoying the comprehensive after 3 days there. He’s enjoyed his lessons and is feeling positive. He also feels he’ll get into top sets and will be challenged. The grammar will mean a one hour journey and that is the main drawback. The comp is 20 minutes away. We have no car and if trains aren’t running to schedule we’ll be stuck.
Arguments in favour of grammar are a proven track record, popular head, good attainment at A level ( average score B+ to comp’s C).
would it be silly not to take up the grammar? I have to get back to them tomorrow.

[ittakes2]

Sorry missed your updated post - glad it worked out.

[ittakes2]

Ring up the grammar school - ask them if you can do a last minute tour and explain why. Its hard for him to make a decision if its worth the extra commute if he has not seen it recently.

[HonestReally]

Aww, that sounds like a good start.

[gramadilema]

Quick update, he came back with a big smile on his face, setting aside my fears that he’d be feeling as if we’d all made a big mistake. Said he loved his physics lesson especially, and had “ made four friends”. Plus there’s a form pet. My relief was just huge!

[Middleoftheroad]

Thanks to those for remembering us. I still shudder at having no school place!

I absolutely agree by the way that our experience at secondary isn't everyone's.
I work with some great comps and ours just didn't fit, but I'm fairly confident he'd have loved the (out of catchment) one I'm based at.

I hope your son's first day went well. He must have been very excited.

It's so hard as parents to know if we get it right for each individual child.
You have listened to your son and that's what we did. Hoping he settles in and has a great adventure.

Your boys are lucky to have you and hoping you can relax and enjoy this weekend without a tough decision to make .

[gramadilema]

Thanks to those who posted recently. Middle of the road I bow to your experience and insights. Undoubtedly there’ s a lot to be said for locality and being able to walk or cycle to school. I’m glad you were able to reclaim the grammar school place, it must have been a very stressful time for your family. User, I’m really glad you had the strength to gain the education and grades you need to go on to university despite bring in a challenging school.
Of course, many comprehensives are not like that and offer a quality education. DS1s comprehensive is certainly striving to be that kind of comp with some impressive results and I have respect and affection for it as it has on the whole served DS1 well so far.
Anyway, DS2 started atGS today and I am very much looking forward to hearing how he got on. Time will tell whether he develops a group of friends he can socialise with at weekends, as DS1 has. I certainly hope so.

[HonestReally]

MiddleofTheRoad
So glad that worked out for you and your boys. That must have been really stressful.

[Middleoftheroad]

Knots - I'm in Birmingham where it goes on score only,
so not fully selective like Bucks, for example.

[KnotsInMay]

Middleoftheroad, are you in a Grammar area?

[HollyBollyBooBoo]

So glad he's gone for the grammar! He sounds so mature, best of luck in his new school!

[Middleoftheroad]

OP - I'm the parent of the twins mentioned upthread!

As mentioned, one twin got in to grammar, the other just missed out. (We'd moved closer to the grammar for one twin and an outstanding comp for the one twin. The comp place was also lost and won back again two months before school started, but that's a long story).

The twin started comp ladt Sept. After a week he was offered a place at a super selective (a different school to his twin).

He wanted to stay at the comp, as he was happy and had made friends - we respected his decision.

Very soon after, things changed. There was low level disruption in lessons, he found lessons unstimulating. There were a few boys being mean. His twin was having a great time at gs, meanwhile.

We tried to get the gs place back that we turned down. It had gone. I kicked myself every day.

My son started to make some nice friends at comp and this was reassuring, but he still wasn't happy in lessons. He's a sweet boy and wouldn't complain, but when I asked him how it wss going, he said the top set wasn't like the top set at his primary. One day I saw a piece of homework and was shocked at the top set level.

Meanwhile his twin at gs was flying. It was hard.

In Feb this year he was offered the gs place again. I asked my son and there was no hesitation - he wanted to go!

Six months later...

He's happy and doing well! We are so pleased we did it and so is he.

It's not all plain sailing though.

The logistics are harder - his comp was up the road and the gs is 7 miles away.

We don't have the same locality of friends as he had at comp so their socialising is mainly XBox (we make sure he sees his comp friends and primary still, and he has his brother and Scouts etc.).

All things considered though he is happier at his new school because he feels stimulated and he settled in well and has nice friends there.

I do sometimes wish he could walk to and from comp with his friends, who'd live locally. That's the only regret.

We always made it clear that if he was ever unhappy he had options.

There is no perfect solution. We are lucky it has worked out, but I never underestimate the value of being "local" with a comp. I'd advise anyone to judge each case individually.

So OP, if I had my time again, we'd have probably moved last Sept to gs instead of Feb, so good on you.

I can't tell you how much regret we had after turning the place down!

I was so happy to get a second chance and would make the same choice again.

I hope your son settles in well. It's so early that he really won't notice.

Don't worry about the scores - my son's was lower than his usual performance but he's doing just fine now academically.

It's a tough decision and all we can do is make a decision that is right at that particular time.

Good luck and I wish you well (sorry for essay).

[Growingboys]

So glad you went for the grammar OP!

Read the whole thread hoping you would.

We got a good school for DS then got offered out dream school and so had a similar dilemma, although he hadn't started yet.

Very glad we went for the dream school and glad your DS has gone for it, too!

[cantkeepawayforever]

User,

Are you currently at the comprehensive that you describe?

Because I absolutely agree with you that a generation or two ago, quite a lot of schools of all types were genuinely terrible.

At that time - i am probably older than you - there was no real accountability framework, so teachers could teach the wrong syllabus, not really bother teaching at all, have all their pupils fail, rule their classrooms like their personal feifdoms etc (My elder DBro's school boasted their unparalleled success at O-level in his year - a whole 24 passes. The fact that 8 of them, and if I recall correctly all the A grades, were DBro's was never mentioned)

The coming of Ofsted and league tables and a whole raft of transparency / accountability measures means that that level of terrible is really quite rare now. Schools that fail Ofsted now - though not great - are very, very rarely as bad as the comprehensives of a generation ago. Most schools with very poor ratings are in areas with high socio-economic deprivation, with the reasons why their pupils may perform less well being linked more to factors outside than inside school.

So if your local comprehensive is still as bad as it was when you were there - or indeed you are still there, then I agree, a very small number of schools are still truly terrible, often as a result of the nature of their intake. However, many more schools WERE truly terrible, and if you are only talking about your experience a generation ago, then your view is historically correct, but no longer necessarily valid.

(I won't be boring and ask do you mean 'secondary modern' or 'comprehensive'? Many people in grammar areas think secondary moderns there equate to comprehensives elsewhere, which of course is not the case. It's like carefully selecting the tallest 25% of the population and then criticising the 75% who are left for being not as tall as the 25% you have just selected...

[UserHistory]

@BertrandRussell, (double LL,or is it 1?)thanks for that. I can only speak from my own experience of comprehensives. That’s why I said some comp schools are really shit, see?
That doesn’t mean all comp schools are really shit, or that grammar schools automatically aren’t really shit, or private schools are or are not really shit. My statement is just that and only relavent to the schools I mentioned. IME some comps are really shit.

If you or anyone else wants to have yet another MN debate about public vs state schools, comps Vs grammars, I suggest you, er, do one.
The OP has left the thread, happy with the outcome for her family.

FTFY... RBAY

[Mumtofourandnomore]

Well done to your ds on having such a mature approach; I think he has made the right decision. My son and daughter (13 and 12) both ride to the station and take their bikes on the train each day - and then ride 2.5 mikes to school. It is now ‘normal’ for them and they do it even in the middle of winter (lights and decent gloves are essential), they could get a bus from the train station but prefer the speed and convenience of their bikes. Despite what people say about trains, although we’ve had a few delays we have rarely had total cancellations - it has been a positive experience for us so far and allows the children to be a bit more independent. Good luck to your ds.

[BertrandRussell]

"Some comps schools are really shit"
FTFY

[UserHistory]

Not totally irrelevant at all @Knotsinmay, indeed the very same situation the OP describes!
Change in head teacher and a slide of teaching throughout my time there.

Anyway, I’m glad the Op’s DS is happy with his choice. It’s the choice I should have made... getting to Uni isn’t the only thing you want from a school... some like minded friends could be seen as a plus.

As it was I had messers in my classes all day every day, with teachers doing what amounted to crowd control, and I had to cover the courses myself without being challenged by the school in any academic way at all.
Some comps are really shit, and poor teacher retention and management upheaval is a toxic environment for bright students.

I’m delighted for your DS OP and wish him good luck in his new school.

[KnotsInMay]

“as it was only three out of 100 made it to uni in my year. I got three As, but it was a lonely journey.”

So a totally irrelevant comparison to the comp the OP has access to.

I am glad the OP has the choice, and that she has made the choice that suits her, and her son, in their particular circumstances.

Peddling generalisations about a whole sector of school doesn’t help her.

[UserHistory]

I’m so glad he’s decided to go to the grammar.

I was in a similar situation myself and stayed in the comp... an hour commute vs two. Unfortunately the teaching really did slide and the new head was far too happy clappy to push for academic success.

I got into uni by my own effort and willpower.
It would have been a better journey for me to have made it with like minded peers.. as it was only three out of 100 made it to uni in my year. I got three As, but it was a lonely journey.

Hope he enjoys his locker!

[CecilyP]

That makes it sound much more accessible as the journey could be done in about 40 minutes. Also possible to do just by walking either side of the train journey.

[LoniceraJaponica]

Is there a bus service if there are no trains?

Unfortunately where we live Northern Rail have had loads of strikes this year, and it meant that the 6th form college students missed several days of college.

Northern Rail are on strike tomorrow and for the next few Saturdays. It means that DD and I will have to do all of our university open days by car.

[gramadilema]

Cecily and sorry if this is less than clear I’m a bit squiffy, had to go out and let some steam off with DH and a bottle of red. Anyway, we went there today by train to buy uniform. So we cycled to train station ( about 8 mins) then lock bikes up ( definitely could not take on train in rush hour) then on to train and 20 minute journey. Then 10 minute walk to school from train station. Of course you are hostage to fortune if any train disruption. But not too bad. I remembered my mum ( who died when I was in my twenties) went to Rye grammar school in the 50s from a village 40 minutes away by bus. Rightly or wrongly, that made me feel better about it all.

[CecilyP]

He has made his choice but I'm interested in how he is going to get there. It is highly unlikely he will be allowed to take his bike on a peak time train and, if he is, he would have push past jostling adults in order to do so. It is more likely that he'd have to lock the bike at the home station and walk the other end. Are there buses he can use as an alternative to the bike? Can he do a trial run tomorrow - it won't quite replicate weekday travel but would give some idea.

[HonestReally]

That’s great news that he has made a decision. The travel will be a pain but it’s not the end of the world. I think planning a taxi fund for him is a good idea.

[FrayedHem]

Best of luck to him, I hope it all works out. Are folding bikes permitted on rush hour trains? No idea how much they cost though.