Can anyone offer urgent advice on sixth form choices?

[Whistle73]

Eldest daughter did much worse than expected in her GCSEs.

Two of her original choices (psychology and sociology) are now not an option.

She wants to study criminology at university after sixth form.

She is now doing BTEC sport (which was always the plan), BTEC law and has the option of either doing English or Photography A level or another BTEC.

The BTECs are 'sold' as being the equivalent of an A level but I can't believe that is true. Am I wrong?

I guess what we need to know is, is university completely out of the question with very disappointing GCSEs (a B, a 6, two 5s and the rest 4s).

Is she better off getting a bad grade at either English or Photography A Level or a very good BTEC but in an unrelated subject to criminology (health and social or performing arts for instance).

I would like her to take English Lit ideally, but that particular GCSE was the real shock. She was predicted a 7 or 8 and only got a 5. As a result her confidence is now shot to pieces and she doesn't want to do it at A Level.

Any advice would be very gratefully received, she's in school today and will need to make up her mind by tomorrow.

A levels are really hard and I wouldn’t consider English unless she got at least a B/7.
Has she got the option of doing a science Btech? My dd is doing applied science (forensics) which teaches some criminology.

I think if you get a distinction grade with BTECs you get 120 UCAS points, the equivalent of an A level A grade. Obviously a pass at BTEC will be lower.

Does she have a natural eye for photography, and is she really interested in it? Was she good at art? (Has she done any photography at all?). If so then I'd say this is probably a good one to go for.
My daughter took both Photography and English. The advantgage of photography A level is the fact that it's mostly course work, and the exam is in May - so done and dusted before the main A level exams. This then gave more time to revise for the main exams. My daughter got an A* which was the only one for this subject at her school, her advice is take the advice of the teacher(s) and spend your weekends doing loads of photshoots and whittle out the rubbish so you have some good material to work with. I'm definite that having more time for revision for her other 2 gave her an advantage in her exam grades - she came out significantly higher (1-2 grades) than predicted in all 3 A levels and is now at Uni when she'd not planned to go before getting her results.

English Language is quite an intense essay based subject. If, as my daughter put it (she got an A), you can woffle in a meaningful way and add in the right content in the right places, then it's quite easy to get a good grade. If you're not good at structuring answers then you may find it hard work. She avoided English Lit because it meant she'd have to learn a lot more, as they expect you to use quotes. So if she's lost her confidence then maybe English Language would be easier.

Is she able to do Biology? Mine considered doing PE and Biology at A level because there is a fair bit of overlap in content. However she got GCSE results which were way above prediction so she changed subjects and didn't do this in the end. I'm not sure of the BTEC content so it may not be as science based as the Alevel.

Incidentally, if she feels strongly she had done better than the exam grade predicted is it worth seeking a remark? If her grade(s) improve then could she do the A level rather than the BTEC?

Thanks so much for all your help.

No question of remarks or retaking anything apparently but I think they are letting her do English because of her performance in class and her mock result.

Personally, deep down, I don't believe she is academic enough for University but she isn't ready to confront this yet and I don't want to write her off at 16 before she has even started sixth form.

She took art GCSE but only got a 4 which makes me think photography isn't for her either. I honestly, realistically, can't see her spending her weekends doing photoshoots.

BTEC business is an option and if Uni doesn't happen this might be more useful to her when she is looking for a job at 18.

No chance of doing BTEC science I'm afraid.

She could do the Sport diploma which is worth 2 A levels and then BTEC law and just stick to the two subjects. DH really wants her to do English Lit A Level though if its an option.

What level btecs are they? She might be better taking an Extended level 3 in one subject which is the equivalent of 3 A levels. Mixing subjects could add to her workload. Neither Psychology nor Sociology are facilitating subjects so not doing those does not rule them out later on. If she can get a decent level 3 qualification uni will still be an option, although some courses may require a minimum gcse grade for English or Maths. Maybe look at their entry requirements and work backwards.

This is the law:

COURSE: BTEC National Extended Certificate in Applied Law
QUALIFICATION: BTEC Level 3 Extended Certificate (equivalent: 1 A Level)

Sport is either this:

COURSE: BTEC LEVEL 3 NATIONAL DIPLOMA IN SPORT
QUALIFICATION: BTEC Level 3 Diploma
(equivalent: 2 A Levels)

or this:

COURSE: BTEC LEVEL 3 NATIONAL FOUNDATION DIPLOMA IN SPORT
QUALIFICATION: BTEC LEVEL 3 CERTIFICATE (equivalent: 1 A Level)

Ideally it should be an extended level 3 diploma course. She does not need Law to study it later but she does need solidly to meet entry grades and probably good gcse English - what was her language grade?

She got a 4. Again a big shock. She got a 7 and a 6 in her mocks.

Whistle73 Personally, deep down, I don't believe she is academic enough for University but she isn't ready to confront this yet and I don't want to write her off at 16 before she has even started sixth form

I wasn't going to post, but then you said this, and it was completely what I going to say. University isn't for everyone, I have a DD just finished, and she did brilliantly, but my second DD Year 11, is already pretty sure she won't, although she does want to do ALevels, and is planning to do three subjects which she loves, but none are so called "facilitating".

Also, and I hate to say it, spending three years and many £'s doing Criminology really isn't worth it. Sorry, but it seems to be the modern equivalent of the Media Studies Degree. So many kids are doing it, I know quite a few, and yes, really enjoyed it, but then got nowhere with it.

Go with ALevels or BTEC's that she is interested in, and will do will in, and over the next couple of years, maybe she will get a better idea of what the future holds for her. So many new opportunities opening up, and they don't necessarily need a degree.

Good Luck.

Thank you so much, I completely agree with you Older.

I suppose I've let her run with the Criminology idea because deep down I haven't ever envisaged it actually happening.

We have definitely got some talking to do tonight. Thanks for everyone's help and no-nonsense advice.

This is the first year for a lot of the new exams, and teaching and especially grade predictions must have relied more than normal on guesswork. 7 is an A not a B. 6 is the B equivalent grade, according to a government website as well as the BBC. If the school is happy for her to continue with a 5 (a slightly higher C), I think they must still think she has the potential to do better, as she was predicted an A (7) or even A+ (8) - maybe they messed up on syllabus teaching, marking and grade predictions, and they didn't get very many grades of 7 and above or even 6. Is she staying at the same school or going to a sixth form college?

BTEC is apparently more coursework based whereas A levels are now totally based on the exam at the end of the course. Which suits your daughter better? Grades seem to be starred distinctions, Distinctions, Merits and Passes and the top grades get A-level level UCAS points.

A good BTEC grade is taken as seriously as an A level and I think the question to ask is what subjects does a student want to study, do they do well at coursework or exams.

If she wants to try for an A level, perhaps you and her dad can help her look at old papers and marking and get to grips with what is being asked, as often being prepared for the actual exam is as important as knowledge and ability, and she won't be such a guinea pig as for her GCSE, so if school is willing to let her and she wants to, it's worth a go..

I actually got my best A level (and only A) in a subject I got a B in at O level, and I don't remember being taught how to write an essay before the 6th form.

University isn't out of the question with her GCSEs.

My personal view is that a single level 3 Extended Diploma (3 A level equivalent) would be much more use than 3 separate BTECs, or 2 separate BTECs and a random A level.

I could be sold a BTEC Diploma (2 A level equiv) plus an A level.

(DD did Diploma in Travel & Tourism. Started Spanish A level but failed the AS. ).

Do well enough at BTECs you can go to university for a related subject. But I'm really not sure how 3 separate BTECs would be viewed. (DD didn't apply).

Are there no suitable Extended Diplomas on offer anywhere locally?

You need to be looking at what universities want, if she is set on criminology have a look at potential universities, although most universities just ask for UCAS points some will request that these come from only a-levels and not BTECs. Personally I would say for her to do an A-level.

Her GCSE grades aren't bad at all. Although the work in A-levels/BTEC is a lot harder than that at GCSE, she will only have three subjects to focus on rather than 8+ she will have had for GCSE. This makes a huge impact.

From my own experience i got a grade D in English lit at GCSE and went on to get a C in English Lit at A-level. Similarly i got a B at GCSE maths and an A in A-level maths. Sometimes ability appears like a light switching on.

That's really encouraging Plumsmith but the schools round here won't consider you for A level unless you get a 6 or above at GCSE and a 5 for BTEC courses.

We've just heard that English Lit clashes with Sport so she won't be able to take it after all.

She got a B in GCSE dance (which she studied with a small group in her spare time and took a year early) so I'm thinking Performing Arts BTEC with Sport and Law might be the best thing.

Her school doesn't offer extended diplomas I'm afraid.

What does she want to do?

In Hampshire we have the great system that schools only go to y11 and then everyone goes on to some kind of college. That way everyone makes a positive choice about what they want to do next rather than defaulting to what current school offers.

Why are you only looking at what 'her school' does rather than all offers within an hour's travel to find the most suitable course for her?

Does she have any idea why she didn't do as well as expected? Who predicted the better grades? Is she diligent but not very good at exams? Can she actually write well enough for A-levels and uni, without much effort, ie toss off a good homework essay with a bit of thought and half an hour, or would she struggle to organise thoughts and figure out which are relevant? Or was it just extreme nerves (in which case BTEC rather than A-level might well suit her better and boost confidence)?

I personally think you need to go back to basics.

• what is she good at generally
• what does she enjoy
• what kind of career might she actually be good at

Then find a course that supports this.

(e.g. indoor or outdoor. at a desk or moving around. very structured or free flowing. problem solving, creative, or following rules. working with public or with a team, or more solitary. involving lots of writing, or physical, or numbers, or people. etc.)

I'm worried you seem to be picking random things that won't prepare her for anything much?

I did a btec national diploma in business and finance which I think was equivalent to 2.5 a levels and went on to do a criminology degree. Criminology degrees btw have or did have one of the worst rates of graduate level employment.

Btecs are not the doss everyone makes out. Dd is taking health and social care and the exams were fairly hard. She got a merit in the exams but is hoping to get a distinction overall.

Photography a level will be a lot of work but if she is genuinely interested in photography it's a good one.

This is my local 'tech' www.eastleigh.ac.uk/careers/

A quick look shows
Paralegal apprenticeship
Business Admin BTEC Extended Diploma
Media, marketing & Event Management
etc

As a solicitor I would say to anyone wanting to study law that A level law is a waste of time and although I don't know the BTEC spec I suspect it would be pretty much the same advice.

What career does she hope to pursue with a criminology degree or does she have no idea (which is fine as most 16 year olds don't)? Does she just have a fantasy idea of what it means?

Thanks everyone. We are no further forward tonight so she is going back in tomorrow to discuss more.

We haven't looked at colleges simply because her results were unexpected, her current school is outstanding with a brand new purpose built sixth form and the local college just isn't very good.

The only reason I can really think of why she didn't do as well as she hoped is that she just didn't put the level of work in that was required.

This has been a shock and a wake up call but I don't think moving her to college an hour and a half bus ride away will help.

She doesn't really know what she wants to do beyond criminology and that's part of the problem, so I think really we have to pick the subjects she did best in and enjoys.

Photography BTEC could be really useful. Lots of website companies looking for people with visual skills especially Photoshop and Premiere. Photography isn't art but you do need a good eye.